2 hours ago, Car147 said:

And for those of us that cannot use HDR? prior to this abomination of an update the sim was working great.

i dont have a hdr monitor, still looking great with a lil fixing, i play with a lower gamma now. 0.8 to 0.9.

its certainly not washed out here.

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Sorry, not buying your theory at all. HDR is nothing more than expanded gama correction and more color depth  that would display on a compatible monitor. It is either on with a monitor that is compliant, or off by default. This has nothing to do with what most are complaining about,   low res, flattened looking scenery, and scenery that pops up or changes as you "slowly" pan around. This was apparently done to get more FPS, so the X box people wouldn't be upset with poor performance.. 

I beg to differ sir.  Although I mentioned it only briefly, various graphic artifacts were resolved when I switched to HDR.  As the other guy was saying this at least in part appears to be optimization for HDR.  As this is far more common on modern TVs than it is on monitors it makes sense they would optimize for that environment.  I think (HOPE) that they intend to change the PC branch back to being all good in SDR (although I really like the HDR on my monitor and it is supposed to have a so-so implementation).  My point being, try HDR enabled and see if some of your artifacts are resolved, you might be surprised, I sure as hell was.  I was just trying everything I could to fix the color and texture issues.

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by badgenes
edited for tense (were vs are)

6 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Was this another change to make it look better on Xbox and TV screens maybe?

It certainly appears they tuned thing for better results on HDR screens rather than providing profiles for both and HRD and SDR.   As usual they are going to have to provide options.  

 

EDIT.. didn't read through the thread.  Seems its all been said already 🙂

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by The Moose

It's a wide EOTF that's being passed and mistranslated to a narrower old-school gamma, when you are not in HDR mode that is.

This crushes the details of the image because it makes varying or differing brightness in the image less distinguishable, resulting in less detail. Even if you correct the blown gamma, you still cannot restore lost detail, so a big portion of the detail is lost in translation from the start. As far as just using HDR, it's not a magic bullet, a lot of it depends on the display being used, and even then the HDR implementation of this game is not perfect (definitely not bad, but not the best either).

HDR can help quite a bit, but it's pretty silly we have to do that.

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by Alpine Scenery

1 hour ago, badgenes said:

I beg to differ sir.  Although I mentioned it only briefly, various graphic artifacts were resolved when I switched to HDR.  As the other guy was saying this at least in part appears to be optimization for HDR.  As this is far more common on modern TVs than it is on monitors it makes sense they would optimize for that environment.  I think (HOPE) that they intend to change the PC branch back to being all good in SDR (although I really like the HDR on my monitor and it is supposed to have a so-so implementation).  My point being, try HDR enabled and see if some of your artifacts are resolved, you might be surprised, I sure as hell was.  I was just trying everything I could to fix the color and texture issues.

I would guess the vast majority of users do not have an HDR monitor, and if you don't, you can turn on HDR, because it will do nothing. 

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by Bobsk8

18 hours ago, David Mills said:

because the sim is slowly becoming more true-to-life. 

I appreciate your story, and I don't know your aviation background. Every individual is different, and there's no right or wrong, when it comes to perception. Here's another story: Mathijs Kok from Aerosoft once told that the sound for their CRJ (I believe it was the CRJ, sorry if it was the Airbus or another product of theirs - I only remember the gist of the story) - although recorded in the original plane - was found unrealistic by the majority of their customers and was only appreciated once it was altered far from the one you hear in the actual aircaft towards the sound that was expected by the majority.

That being said - me, having acquired my PPL license after several years of simming since FS4 days and thus knowing how true-to-life a sim can look, I would always prefer the pre-SU5 MSFS!

1 minute ago, Tom_L said:

That being said - me, having acquired my PPL license after several years of simming since FS4 days and thus knowing how true-to-life a sim can look, I would always prefer the pre-SU5 MSFS!

Yeppers

Guess I better go get an HDR monitor then because after a flight this morning amid full cloud cover all the way from from Panama to Bogota, every time I turned to look out the window of my DC-6 I was like...

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by Stoopy

1 hour ago, Tom_L said:

Mathijs Kok from Aerosoft once told that the sound for their CRJ - although recorded in the original plane - was found unrealistic by the majority of their customers and was only appreciated once it was altered far from the one you hear in the actual aircraft towards the sound that was expected by the majority.

In the same mode of thought, I'll sometimes step out of my house and look at the clouds in the sky and think how unrealistic they look.

21 hours ago, David Mills said:

Since SU5, many have complained here that the scenery appears "washed out" in the sim.

To argue the point I wish to make, I beg your indulgence to tell a one-paragraph story that, at first, may appear unrelated to the subject but is, in reality, a very good analogy.

About three decades ago, the Vatican decided that the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel -- originally painted by Michelangelo -- desperately needed to be repaired. Centuries of dirt and deterioration had taken their toll on Michelangelo's masterwork. The Vatican assembled a world-class team of scientists and architects and artists to perform SU5 ("Sistine Update 5"). The restoration team began by meticulously removing all the accumulated layers of age and filth from centuries of neglect. What the team then observed on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel shocked them. The dark, dour, subdued paintings, with which they were all familiar from childhood, suddenly looked like zany Disney cartoons. Michelangelo's paintings looked (to them) ridiculously oversaturated with color, overly bright and too full of contrast -- and no doubt disrespectful to the true intentions of Michelangelo and probably blasphemous to God Himself. Controversy stirred as to whether (1) the restoration team should apply a dark layer of varnish over the entire ceiling to, once again, return the Sistine Chapel to its "original" pre-restoration appearance, or (2) whether the modern world would simply have to recognize and accept that these bright, Disney-like colors were Michelangelo's obvious intention and that our mindset and assumptions needed to be adjusted. In the end, the restoration team left the bright colors shining through.

So here is the moral of the story: If you're flying an aircraft at high altitude in summer (as we're doing today in the sim), the ground often does look overly bright and washed out, especially in high temps and high humidity. Remember that a popular brand of sunglasses is called Aviators, because aviators in the real world often find it difficult even to look out the cockpit window due to the natural world's overbrightness, especially in these summer months. Just like the Vatican restoration team, we've gotten so used to seeing things in the old, traditional way in the sim, that we think something must be wrong when colors and brightness look different after SU5. The colors and brightness actually look more true-to-life now. It's just difficult to accept because we're used to seeing different, less realistic coloration and brightness. This episode is especially ironic when you consider that, when MSFS was first released almost a year ago, many of us -- including Rob Ainscough himself -- complained that the scenery was often "too dark." I too agreed that it was too dark. I then created a special pre-set on my display to brighten up Microsoft Flight Simulator. I've been using that pre-set for a year to goose up the brightness. Now, I need not treat the sim as needing special help, because the sim is slowly becoming more true-to-life. 

In sticking with the Vatican theme, that’s why God created sunglasses. You can’t wear sunglasses in the sim. This is not a feature. This is a joke. (The sim that is)

30 minutes ago, David Mills said:

In the same mode of thought, I'll sometimes step out of my house and look at the clouds in the sky and think how unrealistic they look.

This reminds me of a back-and-forth I had with a well-known troll several months back -- a guy who has never actually used MSFS, but gets his negative info from the forums. After watching a video trailer of MSFS he declared that the MSFS clouds were ridiculously unrealistic, and posted a screenshot from the video to make his case. I thought, hmm... those clouds look pretty good to me. Then I glanced out the window and looked at real clouds. Lo and behold, they looked exactly (in terms of textures) like the "unrealistic" ones in the video! I pointed this out to the guy and his response was that I was mistaken. I gave up.

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by cobalt

Yeah, I have to disagree with the first post. This happens everywhere, not just where it's summer.

Hopefully Asobo fixes this. It sucks.

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I would guess the vast majority of users do not have an HDR monitor, and if you don't, you can turn on HDR, because it will do nothing. 

Yes, If MSFS does not detect an HDR-enabled display, the HDR10 option in the settings menu wil be greyed out and cannot be selected. I had been running MSFS on a 4K non-HDR monitor, and I noted the washed out overblown look with SU5 that everyone has mentioned. I picked up a 4K HDR monitor Friday, and I have to say that SU5 looks substantially better on that.

Interestingly, until recently, I did not understand that HDR is a monitor function. and will not work on a non-HDR monitor. I was a bit misled by P3D 5, which has an HDR option in its setup menu, and evidently does not check the monitor’s capabilities as MSFS does. I had tried that option switched on, and my reaction was “meh”, because it didn’t really seem to make a difference. Now I know why…

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by JRBarrett

23 minutes ago, cobalt said:

This reminds me of a back-and-forth I had with a well-known troll several months back -- a guy who has never actually used MSFS, but gets his negative info from the forums. After watching a video trailer of MSFS he declared that the MSFS clouds were ridiculously unrealistic, and posted a screenshot from the video to make his case. I thought, hmm... those clouds look pretty good to me. Then I glanced out the window and looked at real clouds. Lo and behold, they looked exactly (in terms of textures) like the "unrealistic" ones in the video! I pointed this out to the guy and his response was that I was mistaken. I gave up.

I'll sometimes wonder how many FPS the real-world is. (This question isn't quite as silly as it may sound at first.)  

20 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Yes, If MSFS does not detect an HDR-enabled display, the HDR10 option in the settings menu wil be greyed out and cannot be selected. I had been running MSFS on a 4K non-HDR monitor, and I noted the washed out overblown look with SU5 that everyone has mentioned. I picked up a 4K HDR monitor Friday, and I have to say that SU5 looks substantially better on that.

Interestingly, until recently, I did not understand that HDR is a monitor function. and will not work on a non-HDR monitor. I was a bit misled by P3D 5, which has an HDR option in its setup menu, and evidently does not check the monitor’s capabilities as MSFS does. I had tried that option switched on, and my reaction was “meh”, because it didn’t really seem to make a difference. Now I know why…

HDR is a different coding, and if the monitor is not programmed to read it, nothing will happen. It's like speaking chinese to someone that only understand english.