Regarding Your Feedback + Upcoming Hotfix

[jarmstro 2,404]

11 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

I would hope that folks know that I wouldn't just be going around and lying to the community.

The focus was delivering a smooth sim, honestly. That required some engineering and engine changes, as these things always do. The intention was to give more headroom for more, added detail. Obviously, not everyone is happy, and more sliders are coming. If you want to dial offscreen terrain caching up, soon you'll be able to. If the intention was truly to soak up that XBox cash and ride off into the sunset, someone definitely forgot to tell the team to do the whole ride off into the sunset part. 🙂

-Matt

Sorry Matt. I don't believe that the downgrade was not driven by the requirements of an XBox running at a minimum 30fps under all circumstances. And I do not mean this as in any way a criticism of the WT team.

Edited August 5, 2021 by jarmstro

[MultiMediaWill 14]

9 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

So that's evidence that the visuals have been downgraded, but where's the evidence that it's the result of a deliberate decision not bugs ?

From Asobo's own mouth, “We tuned the distances, the draw distances, of objects and the way the LOD’s are being used in order to minimize the number of meshes and textures in memory at the same time.”

Doesn’t get more clearer than that. A literal and deliberate downgrade for anyone who owns a PC more capable than the Xbox.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by MultiMediaWill

[ADamiani 470]

3 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Some of the gems I saw from those having a bad time on these very forums were actually or substantially: 'You're gaslighting us', 'This is like 1984', 'Microsoft / Asobo are acting like communist dictators', 'People saying they aren't having any problems should word not allowed off'.

We've all seen some drama from those unhappy with previous patch changes but wow, this time they really went to town.

Sir, if you quote, do it accurately. I never wrote "This is like 1984". I wrote a quote from Orwell and then added that pushing the SU5 "update" with the only comment that it was a great improvement in FPS (and saying nothing about all the rest) was like "raising the weekly ration of chocolate from 30 to 20 grammes".

As anyone can see, it is NOT the same thing. 

The sentence "Microsoft / Asobo are acting like communist dictators" that you quote is nonexistent as far as I remember. Maybe you can point me to the post where it was written. Please do.

Insults (word not allowed in you quotation) toward deniers have not been written in this forum. Again, if I am wrong, point me to the offending post.

The technique of quoting nonexistent stuff is well known. It is also unacceptable in a forum. When you put "" around words, there can be no approximation.

One thing escapes me: if the devs themselves proved you deniers wrong, why don't you relax?

A.

[Bobsk8 12,753]

1 minute ago, ADamiani said:

Sir, if you quote, do it accurately. I never wrote "This is like 1984". I wrote a quote from Orwell and then added that pushing the SU5 "update" with the only comment that it was a great improvement in FPS (and saying nothing about all the rest) was like "raising the weekly ration of chocolate from 30 to 20 grammes".

As anyone can see, it is NOT the same thing. 

The sentence "Microsoft / Asobo are acting like communist dictators" that you quote is nonexistent as far as I remember. Maybe you can point me to the post where it was written. Please do.

Insults (word not allowed in you quotation) toward deniers have not been written in this forum. Again, if I am wrong, point me to the offending post.

The technique of quoting nonexistent stuff is well known. It is also unacceptable in a forum. When you put "" around words, there can be no approximation.

One thing escapes me: if the devs themselves proved you deniers wrong, why don't you relax?

A.

Yeah, he likes to imagine what he thinks people said.....

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

3 hours ago, 177B said:

What bothers me is the way some attack MS/ASOBO or Apple or Laminar or whatever, when an update comes out.

It makes sense to report bugs and problems with graphics etc. And of course CDT's or slow upgrades.

But why attack the company and throw out conspiracy theories about how they probably will just abandon PC users or the sim altogether?

I personally don't think the squeaky wheel gets the grease faster.

I have been in business in a few different fields over the years and I always develop an "A-list" those are for  hard to work with clients and they do get special treatment. Higher prices and lower priority. They are always a small minority, but make a lot of noice.

All these companies rely on their customers being happy, yes even giants like MS. My theory is treat all like you want to be treated yourself. If I take a mistake, I don't mind someone pointing it out so I can make it right as long as they are civil. I am much more likely to respond to valid points when presented politely.

I know it is probably hopeless to ask posters here to be more thoughtful in their posts. But I feel I have to write this anyway.

My way of dealing with U5 was to report a few problems I have, same with the new Husky. But I did not insult ASOBO/MS with name calling and conspiracy theories. I then proceeded to explore the differences and change some settings and I had to redo some of my Alpha and Bravo profiles. I kept flying with what worked and soon it will all be back stable again I am sure. And better than ever.

OK time for another cup of Java and then a flight with the husky in Ireland I think on floats, landing on the lakes and rivers that I fished in years past. I have flown a Rockwell Commander in Ireland and it really is a wonderful scenic experience in real life and in FS2020.

Yep...that totally explains how Microsoft, not ONCE, but TWICE,  walked away cold-dead, from two of their flight sim platforms, POST FS9.  Yep...they were the 'good Sheppard's' looking out for their flight simming flock...LOLOLOLOL!  Yessir......

Cheers!

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

3 hours ago, Krakin said:

Looks like the tinfoil hats are making a comeback. Go ahead and have your fun.

...and the rampant supporters of complete deniability, have truly never petered out... Yep.  Go ahead, and have your fun!

[urthgental 181]

12 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

That would mean asking for a refund for all the very many add ons I have purchased outside of the store. Just Flight. PMDG. Contrail. Macco sim, NextGen sim, OrbX, UK2000,, I could go on so please do not be so ridiculous.

Yes, please do so. You can blame Asobo/MS for it. You will definitely feel better afterwards.

[Matchstick 1,886]

8 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

From Asobo's own mouth, “We tuned the distances, the draw distances, of objects and the way the LOD’s are being used in order to minimize the number of meshes and textures in memory at the same time.”

Doesn’t get more clearer than that. A literal downgrade for anyone who owns a PC more capable than the Xbox.

 

 

They talk there about optimising memory but as I'm sure you are aware that doesn't automatically mean changes to what you see.
(The classic example is FPSs saving memory by only bothering to render areas that are hypothetically viewable from you current location.)

We have major bugs that effect what is being shown in the PC at the moment, while those exist none of us actually know what SU5 is supposed to look like.

Maybe there will be a downgrade once the bugs are fixed, maybe that will be deliberate at which point Asobo have to square what they've delivered with what they said was going to be delivered, but right we're dealing with incomplete information.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Matchstick

[Krakin 5,775]

OK. To the good folks who work at Working Title, you have done more than enough. @kaosfere and @MattNischan you guys dropped some excellent knowledge to set the record straight on why we've been having issues with the last update. At this point I would advise you to stop engaging with some of the more stubborn members. I'm at not sure exactly how your arrangement with MS/Asobo is set up but I would really hate for someone at the top to tell you guys you're no longer allowed to interact with us because things got out of hand.

This is not to say you've done anything wrong but I know how things can escalate online and if people are willing to imply that you guys are lying to us, it just gives me a bad feeling. Perhaps I'm being paranoid for no good reason but I just wanted to give that advice in case it's warranted.

[MultiMediaWill 14]

1 minute ago, Matchstick said:

They talk there about optimising memory but as I'm sure you are aware that doesn't actually mean changes to what you see.

That's where I believe that you're wrong. Asobo 'optimized' memory by reducing the amount of scenery stored in RAM when not viewing it directly with the camera. Therefore, when I quickly change my view (to see down the wing for example), the scenery now has to load in for the new view. So in this case, their 'optimizations' certainly changed what we see. 

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

2 hours ago, March Hare said:

Thank you, Matt, for confirming exactly what I've been trying to say in a couple of my posts. I can only imagine how the team there feel after all this work and seeing these baseless accusations. They are just trying to give people what they have seemingly been begging for, with some hiccups thrown in because s&#! happens. And even their acknowledgement of issues and promise of fixes is met with more conspiracy and bashing...

I'm really disgusted by what I see here. Having a family member who is a developer, I see (and hear) the stress -- and the dedication and excitement. Developers are passionate professionals who want their product to please people and bring joy. And they are human.

...and they have no professionals in the Quality Control Department that have been trained to vet out 'bugs' before RTM?  Not in my engineering ecoculture.  You'd be called upon the corporate matt, or even be fired....for that negligence.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sesquashtoo

[Matchstick 1,886]

Just now, MultiMediaWill said:

That's where I believe that you're wrong. Asobo 'optimized' memory by reducing the amount of scenery stored in RAM when not viewing it directly with the camera. Therefore, when I quickly change my view (to see down the wing for example), the scenery now has to load in for the new view. So in this case, their 'optimizations' certainly changed what we see. 

I absolutely agree with you there, which is why I explictly mentioned that in an earlier post.

But to me that's not a visual downgrade, that's a performance issue.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

17 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Yeah, he likes to imagine what he thinks people said.....

In the end, we have a working Sim (for most) with slightly degraded visuals, and with a mostly or partially broken Dev mode (depending what you need to do). That is how I see it, only my personal opinion.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[MultiMediaWill 14]

Just now, Matchstick said:

I absolutely agree with you there, which is why I explictly mentioned that in an earlier post.

But to me that's not a visual downgrade, that's a performance issue.

It's both. It's certainly a visual downgrade for me compared to what we had for the first 11 months of the sim. 

[Bob Scott 7,721]

A word of warning...we do not condone ad hominem (to the person) commentary here...there are a few of you that seem intent to comment on other users, individually, or as a group via generalizations, and that stops now or you'll get escorted to the waiting area.

Feel free to debate the issues...do not feel free to demean or characterize others with whom you may disagree.