3 hours ago, martin-w said:

You quoted Chad Underwoods encounter though. I was specifically referring to the encouter that was spoken about here, where simply the word "erratic" was used without elaboration. Not The Nimitz encounter. If "erratic" is defined as seemingly physics defying maneuvers then that's a different proposition. So unless that is specifically said I will define erratic as uncoordinated flight.

I can’t elaborate as I wasn’t there, I’m simply relaying an event, or in fact it was events as it happened more than one occasion  ,  as it was told to me by the ex RAF approach controller who was there.

 I’m not really interested in the semantics of the word erratic, substitute it for the phrase often used by my old Australian flying instructor  if you prefer “ you’re all over the sky like a mad woman’s breakfast “

Either way a highly trained military approach controller using calibrated hi definition radar equipment observed an airborne  radar return moving all over the sky like a mad woman’s breakfast , in such a way and speed it could not possibly have been an aircraft.

Some times you may not have hard physical evidence, but if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks, the chances are.. it’s a duck.

Smart remark deleted. Sorry.

Edited August 20, 20214 yr by dmwalker

1 hour ago, dmwalker said:

I think it would be because they are in a shared environment and their movement is predictable along airways and they are isolated from most other activities.

Not sure how, but the post you quoted was not mine…

4 hours ago, dmwalker said:

I believe radar operators can identify a flock of birds by the appearance on the radar screen as well as their behaviour. 

Yes, here in the northeastern US in Spring and Autumn there are large flocks of geese on the move, and it is common to hear the local approach/departure controller call out something like: “slow moving targets, 6 miles, speed and altitude unknown, possible migratory waterfowl”

7 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Not sure how, but the post you quoted was not mine…

I see now it was from a post by UAL744 which you referenced. I wasn't thinking clearly. It's all this heat and humidity. Sorry.

5 hours ago, dmwalker said:

I see now it was from a post by UAL744 which you referenced. I wasn't thinking clearly. It's all this heat and humidity. Sorry.

No problem!

16 hours ago, jon b said:

Either way a highly trained military approach controller using calibrated hi definition radar equipment observed an airborne  radar return moving all over the sky like a mad woman’s breakfast , in such a way and speed it could not possibly have been an aircraft.

 

Well. yes, if "erratic" behaviour was defined as including velocity that couldn't be an aircraft its interesting. 

 

16 hours ago, jon b said:

Some times you may not have hard physical evidence, but if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks, the chances are.. it’s a duck.

 

But what king of a duck do you think it looks like? An alien spacecraft duck, a top secret military project duck, or something else?

The duck in this case has no identity. All we can say is its a mysterious phenomenon that has been around since the Roman's saw flying shields in the sky and reported strange figures in white suits. We can speculate of course, but we need more evidence before we can make any definitive claims as to the true nature of the phenomenon. At present, all we have is "what people claim" and a few ATFLIR video's. Personally, I have no reason to doubt that Fravor and the other three in the two F18's witnessed what they say they did but we do have to be scientific about this and employ the scientific method, for its that which will give us the best chance of determining the true nature. That does seem to be happening now with Avi Loeb setting up the Galileo Project and Kevin H Knuth the SCU.

On 8/20/2021 at 12:50 PM, jon b said:

it’s time to move on and face facts, these things are real.

 

We know they are real, in that people see things in the sky that are unidentified, but what do you think we are dealing with? Are you a believer in the alien visitation hypothesis? 

50 minutes ago, martin-w said:

employ the scientific method

Ah!  There's the rub!  Employing the scientific method.  Like the Big Foot sightings.  People see something that looks like a Big Foot or Big Foot tracks.  But where do they live?  What do they eat?  Has anyone ever discovered a dead Big Foot or Yeti?  Found any Big Foot poop?  Found any physical evidence that they exist besides the footprints that may be real or may be fake?  Has anyone ever followed the footprints to see where they lead?

Likewise UFOs.  Some have seen them.  Some claim to have seen depressions on the ground where one was supposed too have landed.  Could the Roswell Incident have been true?  Who has the scientific evidence to make public?

So the sightings continue of the earthbound UGBOs (Unidentified Ground Based Objects) and sky bound UFOs to drive us nuts with speculation.  Like when I tease my cats with a laser light or a ball in a string.

Noel

 

Edited August 21, 20214 yr by birdguy

48 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Like the Big Foot sightings.  People see something that looks like a Big Foot or Big Foot tracks.  But where do they live?  What do they eat?  Has anyone ever discovered a dead Big Foot or Yeti?  Found any Big Foot poop?  Found any physical evidence that they exist besides the footprints that may be real or may be fake?  Has anyone ever followed the footprints to see where they lead?

 

Lots of claims for Mr Big Foot I recall. A bit of fur here and there, a few footprints that aren't definitive that could be fake. I guess its feasible that there's some kind of apelike creature in remote places. But yes, it has to be proven. We humans are easily fooled. 

 

50 minutes ago, birdguy said:

So the sightings continue of the earthbound UGBOs (Unidentified Ground Based Objects) and sky bound UFOs to drive us nuts with speculation.  Like when I tease my cats with a laser light or a ball in a string.

 

A great way of putting it.

But never tease your cat too much and always make sure that after a few  "impossible to catch cat toy manoeuvres" reminiscent of the famous tic tac UFO that darted around in a physics defying way, allow your cat to catch said toy. If you don't, he will turn into a savage beast, ignore the toy, and savage your hand instead.  🐱

I would say that, based on the evidence presented in this forum, I'm about 80-90% certain that aliens are here. Part of this is that I want there to be aliens here but the evidence and the witnesses seem to become more reliable and convincing.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe Bigfoot exists. How many Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) would there have to be in one colony in order for the species to survive? As far as I know, we only ever see one full grown male(?) at a time and we never seen young ones.

Dugald, why do you want aliens to be here?  If some of them are here how would you identify them unless they look like we look? 

Noel

27 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Dugald, why do you want aliens to be here?  If some of them are here how would you identify them unless they look like we look? 

Perhaps my wording was not quite accurate. At this stage, I hope there really are alien UFOs in our skies and I am following Arthur Clarke's Chart of the Future which predicts contact with extra-terrestrials around 2030-2040. That seems to be happening now. His other prediction is that actual meeting with extra-terrestrials would occur around 2100. I doubt that they would be so like us that they could infiltrate our society.

13 hours ago, dmwalker said:

Perhaps my wording was not quite accurate. At this stage, I hope there really are alien UFOs in our skies and I am following Arthur Clarke's Chart of the Future which predicts contact with extra-terrestrials around 2030-2040. That seems to be happening now. His other prediction is that actual meeting with extra-terrestrials would occur around 2100. I doubt that they would be so like us that they could infiltrate our society.

 

Why do you hope there are alien spacecraft in our skies? Do you think they would be friendly and here to benefit us? Or just explorers? 

Wild guesses from Arthor C Clarke. He wrote good fiction, but he wasn't capable of precognition. 

 

As for being like us, a number of possibilities arise. If they were an offshoot of ancient humans (Atlantian hypothesis) it might be feasible. Or, there is a principle called "convergent evolution" in that we know evolution likes to chose the same solutions for a given problem. So the Star Trek notion of aliens looking a bit like us might not be far off the mark.

Then we have visitors from parallel worlds that might look identical to us.

Depends how imaginative you want to be.

Edited August 22, 20214 yr by martin-w

They might be coming here to check on their crop, seeing if there are enough of us to start harvesting.  Oh, sure, they might start by acting friendly and even present us with a book titled "To Serve Man", but the reality is that it is a cookbook.