25 minutes ago, GaryK said:

Nor really a fan of the military aircraft. Not quite a pacifist, some wars have been worth it but not many. Definitely don't like to see it glorified.

Just hope Avsim have the sense to start a military MSFS sub forum otherwise this forum is going to get a little too gung ho for me.

I appreciate that my views are probably in the minority here, just thought I voice them anyway.

Not really a minority to be fair, both Matthew Modine, was offered the role of Maverick, and Bryan Adams, who was asked to do tunes for the soundtrack, both declined because they thought the script for Top Gun glorified war.

20 hours ago, Drumcode said:

The studios are clearly not willing to gamble to release these massive productions to theaters during the pandemic. Too risky. 

He was filming during the pandemic.   Some of the crew on his set weren't social distancing,  and he went justifiably ballistic.

 

19 hours ago, F1Fan said:

This.. I think you nailed it.  I agree.  I'm sure it was the pandemic reason.

Right down the street from me I saw some dozers leveling a field.   I figured another shopping mall.  Two days later they'd arranged a single stack of 45" cargo containers, 3 or 4 high,  at each end of the field.  Then they painted them white,  and hung fabric screens from them.  In less than a week,   they had thrown together a two screen drive in movie theater. 

  

1 hour ago, GaryK said:

Just hope Avsim have the sense to start a military MSFS sub forum otherwise this forum is going to get a little too gung ho for me.

They didn't have those subforums for FSX or P3D which have plenty of free and payware military aircraft, why start now?
Heck there's even a payware addon for those sims that adds working weapons.

I think you're overreacting. I don't think we're going to have that problem here.

Edited September 2, 20214 yr by Tuskin38

1 hour ago, GaryK said:

Nor really a fan of the military aircraft. Not quite a pacifist, some wars have been worth it but not many. Definitely don't like to see it glorified.

Just hope Avsim have the sense to start a military MSFS sub forum otherwise this forum is going to get a little too gung ho for me.

I appreciate that my views are probably in the minority here, just thought I voice them anyway.

I don't think you are in the minority, its just that the military fans usually have bigger megaphones and are more excitable.

Edited September 2, 20214 yr by 6297J

5 minutes ago, 6297J said:

I don't think you are in the minority, its just that the military fans usually have bigger megaphones and are more excitable.

This, plus the war machine is a huge economic force that is driven to perpetuate itself, including through popular culture, as @Chock was alluding to.

It's like the situation with gun control in the US -- a large majority of the population have, for some time, favored stricter regulations.   But the 2A folks tend to have louder voices, plus they have a massive lobbying organization working for them in Washington.  (And one "fraught with fraud and abuse", to quote one AG, to boot).

Peace doesn't pay as well, unfortunately.   At least not in the short-term, which is what our economy is built around.

All that said:  despite my innate pacifism, and the despair I feel whenever I think about just how much human capital is spent trying to find better and more effective ways for us to kill one another and how much more good that money could do if it were spent on actual civic progress...   dem planes are COOL, from a purely visceral perspective.   I get as many thrills as the next person watching F35s do their thing at an air show, and I totally get why people who hate war and violence are still fascinated with the hardware.

NGL, I am, too.

3 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

All that said:  despite my innate pacifism, and the despair I feel whenever I think about just how much human capital is spent trying to find better and more effective ways for us to kill one another and how much more good that money could do if it were spent on actual civic progress...   dem planes are COOL, from a purely visceral perspective.   I get as many thrills as the next person watching F35s do their thing at an air show, and I totally get why people who hate war and violence are still fascinated with the hardware.

This is also me. I love war machines and military firearms, I don't like what they're used for.

I like first person shooters, but would never want to do that in real life.

Edited September 2, 20214 yr by Tuskin38

The over zealous mods have closed the topic on the official forum, probably just as we're gonna get details of the DLC status in tonight's weekly update thing 🙄

1 hour ago, Waldo Pepper said:

Right down the street from me I saw some dozers leveling a field.   I figured another shopping mall.  Two days later they'd arranged a single stack of 45" cargo containers, 3 or 4 high,  at each end of the field.  Then they painted them white,  and hung fabric screens from them.  In less than a week,   they had thrown together a two screen drive in movie theater. 

Interesting! I guess there are other ways to show a movie like the good old days of Drive-In Theatre.  My parents use to take and drives us all the kids to one of these Drive-in's in the Suburbs of NY as we didn't have any of those in the city (Bronx NY).  It was a nice little treat for us and it included a meal (Goody's Hamburger) a before McDonalds fast food chain.  Ah, the good old days!

The irony of worrying about military fans in the MSFS forum...  You do know who makes P3D right?  LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

Quote

Major General Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940), nicknamed "Old Gimlet Eye",^[1] was a senior United States Marine Corps officer who fought in the Philippine–American War, the Boxer Rebellion, the Mexican Revolution and World War I. During his 34-year career as a Marine, he participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, and Central America; the Caribbean during the Banana Wars; and France in World War I. Butler was, at the time of his death, the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. By the end of his career, Butler had received 16 medals, five for heroism. He is one of 19 men to receive the Medal of Honor twice, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal (along with Wendell Neville and David Porter) and the Medal of Honor, and the only Marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions.

In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot, and the media ridiculed the allegations, but a final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.

Butler later became an outspoken critic of American wars and their consequences. In 1935, Butler wrote a book titled War Is a Racket, where he describes and criticizes the workings of the United States in its foreign actions and wars, such as those in which he had been involved, including the American corporations and other imperialist motivations behind them. After retiring from service, he became a popular advocate, speaking at meetings organized by veterans, pacifists, and church groups in the 1930s.

Quote

Bonus Army[edit]

Main article: Bonus Army

During his Senate campaign, Butler spoke out forcefully about the veterans' bonus. Veterans of World War I, many of whom had been out of work since the beginning of the Great Depression, sought immediate cash payment of Service Certificates granted to them eight years earlier via the World War Adjusted Compensation Act of 1924. Each Service Certificate, issued to a qualified veteran soldier, bore a face value equal to the soldier's promised payment, plus compound interest. The problem was that the certificates (like bonds), matured 20 years from the date of original issuance, thus, under extant law, the Service Certificates could not be redeemed until 1945. In June 1932, approximately 43,000 marchers—17,000 of whom were World War I veterans, their families, and affiliated groups—protested in Washington, D.C.^[56] The Bonus Expeditionary Force, also known as the "Bonus Army", marched on Washington to advocate the passage of the "soldier's bonus" for service during World War I. After Congress adjourned, bonus marchers remained in the city and became unruly. On July 28, 1932, two bonus marchers were shot by police, causing the entire mob to become hostile and riotous. The FBI, then known as the United States Bureau of Investigation, checked its fingerprint records to obtain the police records of individuals who had been arrested during the riots or who had participated in the bonus march.^[56][57]

The veterans made camp in the Anacostia flats while they awaited the congressional decision on whether or not to pay the bonus. The motion, known as the Patman bill, was decisively defeated, but the veterans stayed in their camp. On July 19 Butler arrived with his young son Thomas, the day before the official eviction by the Hoover administration. He walked through the camp and spoke to the veterans; he told them that they were fine soldiers and they had a right to lobby Congress just as much as any corporation. He and his son spent the night and ate with the men, and in the morning Butler gave a speech to the camping veterans. He instructed them to keep their sense of humor and cautioned them not to do anything that would cost public sympathy.^[58] On July 28, army cavalry units led by General Douglas MacArthur dispersed the Bonus Army by riding through it and using gas. During the conflict several veterans were killed or injured and Butler declared himself a "Hoover-for-Ex-President-Republican".^[59]

 

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

This is also me. I love war machines and military firearms, I don't like what they're used for.

I like first person shooters, but would never want to do that in real life.

Great thoughts and mine as well.   Even though I am ex-military, I hate war as much as the next rational human being. 

I despise killing/harming anything that is not harming me or my family.  When a moth, spider or most other bugs get in my house...I catch and release.  Only 3 things get smashed....flies, mosquitos and roaches...all harmful to humans.

I also like war machines and weapons for their technological achievements, not in any way for the job they do, as offensive weapons.  As defensive weapons...well...one of the phrases I love is "God created all men, Samuel Colt made them all equal".  And in the Wild West, that was very true.  EVERYONE carried a gun, the vast majority for self defense.  In that role, I love guns.  Of course its those who use them for evil that ruin it for humanity....but they'd beat you to death with a bat if there were no guns, we're not going to ever change that sad part of society's sociopaths 😞

Lets not forget the military aircraft that do good in the world...namely transports...like this one. 😁

Love flying the DC-6 /C-118 and have flown her on many virtual mercy missions, carrying supplies to Haiti, New Orleans, etc.  There are countless Germans thankful for the military planes that participated in the Berlin Airlift, and there are a few hundred thousand Afghans who are quite fond of C-17s and C-130s now 😉

 

2 hours ago, kaosfere said:

despite my innate pacifism, and the despair I feel whenever I think about just how much human capital is spent trying to find better and more effective ways for us to kill one another and how much more good that money could do if it were spent on actual civic progress...   dem planes are COOL, from a purely visceral perspective.

Yup, me too. You can quite happily be interested in warfare and all its equipment whilst still disliking it as a concept. I've got bookshelves groaning under the weight of books on warfare and historical battles, from Ancient times, through the Roman empire, the medieval period, then right up to the present. I've also got a ton of military memorabilia, plus a fairly sizable collection of weapons ranging from ancient Viking axes, to AK-47s.

It's a fascinating subject to study, but I could perhaps forgive someone who saw all that stuff I have if they thought I was some kind of nut-job war-lover, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth, because the more you study that stuff and learn about it, the more you actually understand it and know how horrible it can be, and can then argue intelligently against it, and even occasionally for it, from more than a simple a 'war is bad' point of view, because the truth is, sometimes war is entirely justified.

Ultimately you have to know at least a bit about a topic if you are going to decide you are against it. But in spite of me generally being against war, the technology warfare encourages, will always be fascinating to study, and of course the great thing about computer warplanes in sims, is that you can blow those things up all day long and nobody gets hurt at all.

2 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

Love flying the DC-6 /C-118

A beautiful machine.

What if the aircraft was used in what I would consider a necessary war? Like WW2, or even WW1? I just got a TrackIr last week and fired up 'Rise of Flight' for the first time in 6-7 years. What a blast that is with the TrackIr shooting holes through canvas of enemy planes. Rat tat tat tat tat