4k 60hz to 1440p 144hz..WOW

[swiesma 625]

3 hours ago, iFlySimX said:

Do you limit via NVIDIA?

Yes. 

[Noel 4,499]

26 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Please Noel stop talking silly.  

Before you carry on, Buy TrackIR then eat humble pie.

All I need is to use my mouse on the deaktop to know what HZ my screen is at 60/120/240.

30Hz....🙄 no...

Come on David don't be rude.  TrackIR came into this discussion in the 10th of 12 pages of commentary, and so that additional piece of hardware completely changes the discussion.   All of my replies here related to the main content of the thread, not TrackIR.  

And, yes, move your mouse around fast and gee you can tell the difference.  Whoopdeedoodah.  I learned MSFS's vsync routine obviates the need for 30hz, so changed to 60hz, and really, without doing special tricks to tease out the difference, there isn't enough of a difference to matter.  It does mean there is no need for a 30Hz capable display, which is nice as they're hard to come by.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Noel

[Nyxx 6,993]

I was not being rude Noel.

But pointless...If your not using TrackIR you can go as low as 20 FPS, or its as good as the users eyes are.

With TrackIR 40 FPS or 60 FPS is needed to get perfecly smooth movement.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Nyxx

[Virtpilot 151]

5 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I was not being rude Noel.

But pointless...If your not using TrackIR you can go as low as 20 FPS, with TrackIR 40 FPS or 60 FPS is needed to get perfecly smooth movement.

That's what I am using, based on your advice, so thank you! Got monitor with 120Hz and frames locked inside the sim to 20 fps which gives me 40fps. I have been a happy simmer ever since. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Virtpilot

[Ixoye 1,821]

The only difference I see between 30 and 60 fps is when panning and in mouse movements, then there is an obvious difference, but I prefer more eye candy and backup power when needed in the toughest situations, so I lock my fps to 38.

[Noel 4,499]

6 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I was not being rude Noel.

But pointless...If your not using TrackIR you can go as low as 20 FPS, or its as good as the users eyes are.

With TrackIR 40 FPS or 60 FPS is needed to get perfecly smooth movement.

You're being rude by ignoring the context of all of my comments, then telling me I need to go buy TrackIR so I can eat crow.   Again 95% of the discussion omitted TrackIR as a component of the discussion.

[psolk 3,040]

17 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

The only difference I see between 30 and 60 fps is when panning and in mouse movements, then there is an obvious difference, but I prefer more eye candy and backup power when needed in the toughest situations, so I lock my fps to 38.

The panning is one of the biggest things for me.  I do use TIR as well but also notice it when TIR is paused and I am using the hat switch...  I prefer to bring down my settings a bit for smoother panning ie faster refresh but that's why they make sliders 🙂 

[Nyxx 6,993]

13 minutes ago, Noel said:

You're being rude by ignoring the context of all of my comments, then telling me I need to go buy TrackIR so I can eat crow.   Again 95% of the discussion omitted TrackIR as a component of the discussion.

OK Noel, then back at you, why not talk about using 20 FPS as "95% of the discussion" is not talking about looking around like a human would....Lets just leave out a key component is mimicking how we use our eyes IRL, becasue we sure dont have our head locked in a fixed positsion IRL. 🙂

[Nyxx 6,993]

22 minutes ago, Virtpilot said:

That's what I am using, based on your advice, so thank you! Got monitor with 120Hz and frames locked inside the sim to 20 fps which gives me 40fps. I have been a happy simmer ever since. 

Great, happy to help 🙂

[Noel 4,499]

24 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

OK Noel, then back at you, why not talk about using 20 FPS as "95% of the discussion" is not talking about looking around like a human would....Lets just leave out a key component is mimicking how we use our eyes IRL, becasue we sure dont have our head locked in a fixed positsion IRL. 🙂

Once again, you seem to be fixated on TrackIR which the vast majority of users don't use.   Everyone using P3D/MSFS pans frequently so your 'we sure don't have our head locked...' is just more spurious, missing the point argument.   Introducing another piece of hardware into the equation apparently changes things for the worse in terms of what is required to drive it.   We might as well say, 'Gee, if we had a multi-screen 30 foot wide screen and mouse-panned, we'd really notice 30 FPS over 60 FPS!'  Sure!  Were you to view my screen, at 28" viewing distance, 4:1 odds you would not notice the difference in a large number of double-blinded tests of typical use of either P3D or MSFS in normal use of the simulator, w/o doing special maneuvers to tease out the difference.  I've done this experiment many times obviously not blinded, but always conclude there is no point to 60 FPS so trade that in for major headroom and visual complexity.  This is why many are thrilled to have liquid smooth performance at 30fps on a flat screen, vsynced.  No eyestrain, no headaches.   The far greater source of stutter now is ATC & the spinning white indicator on the lower right part of the screen.  Fortunately both of those have effective workarounds.  If it's so significant for you, again on a flat screen using mouselook, I'm sorry for you because that costs you ~50% more processing power to accommodate.   Apparently TrackIR is worth it for you.   Very glad to off the 'Does it give more FPS?' train as it's simply not necessary for smooth, stutter-free performance.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

This is why many are thrilled to have liquid smooth performance at 30fps on a flat screen, vsynced.

Are they? The MSFS forums beg to differ, as do I and “many others”. 
 

1 hour ago, Noel said:

simulator, w/o doing special maneuvers to tease out the difference

You mean like flying aerobatic planes and fighter jets? Not everyone sits staring at an airliner static screen. 

[Nyxx 6,993]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Once again, you seem to be fixated on TrackIR which the vast majority of users don't use.   Everyone using P3D/MSFS pans frequently so your 'we sure don't have our head locked...' is just more spurious, missing the point argument.   Introducing another piece of hardware into the equation apparently changes things for the worse in terms of what is required to drive it.   We might as well say, 'Gee, if we had a multi-screen 30 foot wide screen and mouse-panned, we'd really notice 30 FPS over 60 FPS!'  Sure!  Were you to view my screen, at 28" viewing distance, 4:1 odds you would not notice the difference in a large number of double-blinded tests of typical use of either P3D or MSFS in normal use of the simulator, w/o doing special maneuvers to tease out the difference.  I've done this experiment many times obviously not blinded, but always conclude there is no point to 60 FPS so trade that in for major headroom and visual complexity.  This is why many are thrilled to have liquid smooth performance at 30fps on a flat screen, vsynced.  No eyestrain, no headaches.   The far greater source of stutter now is ATC & the spinning white indicator on the lower right part of the screen.  Fortunately both of those have effective workarounds.  If it's so significant for you, again on a flat screen using mouselook, I'm sorry for you because that costs you ~50% more processing power to accommodate.   Apparently TrackIR is worth it for you.   Very glad to off the 'Does it give more FPS?' train as it's simply not necessary for smooth, stutter-free performance.

I was going to go over your "points" but there so funny and so ill thought out I will leave you to it.

Sorry Noel i have no wish to fall out with you at all. So I will leave it there. 🙂

[Blueline308 127]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

This is why many are thrilled to have liquid smooth performance at 30fps

That is an oxymoron.  30 FPS is not and never has been liquid smooth.  You may tell yourself that or have been conditioned because of 24 FPS cinema, but 30 FPS is not smooth.

[psolk 3,040]

4 hours ago, Noel said:

Once again, you seem to be fixated on TrackIR which the vast majority of users don't use.   Everyone using P3D/MSFS pans frequently so your 'we sure don't have our head locked...' is just more spurious, missing the point argument.   Introducing another piece of hardware into the equation apparently changes things for the worse in terms of what is required to drive it.   We might as well say, 'Gee, if we had a multi-screen 30 foot wide screen and mouse-panned, we'd really notice 30 FPS over 60 FPS!'  Sure!  Were you to view my screen, at 28" viewing distance, 4:1 odds you would not notice the difference in a large number of double-blinded tests of typical use of either P3D or MSFS in normal use of the simulator, w/o doing special maneuvers to tease out the difference.  I've done this experiment many times obviously not blinded, but always conclude there is no point to 60 FPS so trade that in for major headroom and visual complexity.  This is why many are thrilled to have liquid smooth performance at 30fps on a flat screen, vsynced.  No eyestrain, no headaches.   The far greater source of stutter now is ATC & the spinning white indicator on the lower right part of the screen.  Fortunately both of those have effective workarounds.  If it's so significant for you, again on a flat screen using mouselook, I'm sorry for you because that costs you ~50% more processing power to accommodate.   Apparently TrackIR is worth it for you.   Very glad to off the 'Does it give more FPS?' train as it's simply not necessary for smooth, stutter-free performance.

So you conducted your own non blind experiment and came to the conclusion on your monitor 4:1 someone can't see the difference?  Funny because I sit 28 inches from a 49 inch ultrawide and I notice it without trying...  If everyone was thrilled with 30 FPS they wouldn't be moving to 60 FPS where possible LOL...  30 FPS was born out of 60 FPS not being consistently attainable, nothing more, it was a workaround when the optimal wasn't obtainable.  To try and suggest the workaround to make half the performance seem comparable to the original performance is equal and unnoticeable is quite pointless though, of course it isn't, that's why it is a solution when 60 FPS is not achievable. .  Furthermore, on the PC it's only flightsim you ever hear about being measured at 30FPS, most games or aiming for double or 4x that performance at this point.  I run iRacing at 120FPS.  Now imagine what it would look like at 30.  Unplayable.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by psolk

[Noel 4,499]

1 hour ago, psolk said:

f everyone was thrilled with 30 FPS they wouldn't be moving to 60 FPS where possible LOL

Gee, I never said everyone was thrilled did I?  What I said was many with high end hardware are happy enough to stick with it in trade for the processing overhead that is saved, and it's substantial enough to fuel higher complexity.

1 hour ago, psolk said:

30 FPS was born out of 60 FPS not being consistently attainable, nothing more, it was a workaround when the optimal wasn't obtainable.

Um, yes that's correct, and it's still the case for many, even myself w/ my PC which is in the top 10-15% of users.  Many others like myself find 30 fps perfectly great, and one more time, it's doable everywhere in anything at any time of the day with maximum settings, and gee whiz I'm only at 3440x1440.  

1 hour ago, psolk said:

most games or aiming for double or 4x that performance at this point.

Figures.  This is what your buddy said about ghz displays.  Oh, gotta have 144 or 200Hz else it's seizures, headaches and eyestrain.  Not here thankfully.  Many people here myself included aren't driven by what 'most games aiming for double or 4x that', so that does not dictate how the sim is setup.  It's setup to give fluid performance with maximum graphic quality possible everywhere, in any plane, any time of day.  That IS NOT the case for people who have trouble w/ 30FPS.  For those who see it this way, to sacrifice this for the barely to not perceptable at all difference in behavior between 30 and 60fps in civilian flight sims, is just not worth the processing penalty.  A very big part of a flight is akin to watching paint dry.  But even so, I've done this many times 30 v 60, and it's just barely if at all perceptable, and certainly not worth processing cost.  I'll never be one who clamors to ask the question I see, "Will we get more FPS?" when a change is implemented, for example DX-12 depending on how that transpires. I absolutely do not, I repeat, do not need more FPS, and am very grateful for this position and I feel indeed the graphic engine in terms of raw performance is now perfectly matched to my hardware.  I see the abject need to run a flight sim at 60+ FPS as an unfortunate scenario for those affected by it.