2 hours ago, Blueline308 said:

That is an oxymoron.  30 FPS is not and never has been liquid smooth.  You may tell yourself that or have been conditioned because of 24 FPS cinema, but 30 FPS is not smooth.

For you, but for many that is simply not the case.  Sorry for your condition.  Let me say it for you since you appear not pay attention to detail:  I've done 30fps and 60fps many times to see why the focus, and I don't see it, at all.  In fact, if anything 30fps has generally been better, which I attribute to perhaps not noticing some spikes in demand dropping the sim below the vsync to 60hz.  

4 hours ago, Nyxx said:

I was going to go over your "points" but there so funny and so ill thought out I will leave you to it.

Sorry Noel i have no wish to fall out with you at all. So I will leave it there. 🙂

How gracious of you.  Great idea--leave it.

On 9/11/2021 at 8:44 AM, Bilal2104 said:

Ive never seen the sim run so smoothly not one stutter and screen flick what so ever.

If you don't routinely go into Dev Mode at any point in an active flight, have you not noticed the microstutter that can happen when the spinning logging indicator displays on the lower right portion of your display?  Also, I still get an occasional stutter when ATC sounds off, and I understand there is somewhat of a workaround for it that limits the lines of speech or something like that which can lessen this source of stutters.  These two issues should have nothing to do w/ your high gHz display, or screen resolution.  The only source of stutters I see now are these two, and perhaps some related to server access or load as they can happen when there is ample CPU/GPU/VRAM headroom.

Theres no winning this debate because it's open to subjective interpretation I think.

The facts seem to be this:

There is a clear and discernible difference between 30fps, 60fps 100fps and to a lesser extent 100fps to 144fps (and the hz equivalent) to many of us. I'm aware of this anecdotally because I can reliably tell (and verify) when my fps drops below 60.

Some people are fine with this. It seems to me that the people that are fine with it come from the contingent of former or current P3D users who are used to using large airliners with static (non panning) views at generally high altitude and, in addition, click buttons to fly the aircraft (not a criticism).

Others who hand fly low with significant panning / TrackIR seem to be far more impacted. In addition to that, in a sim like DCS F14, without a smooth fps I absolutely couldn't read the jet as well as I do at 80fps plus. Every change in movement and buffet helps SA and this is far easier and more intuitive to do at high FPS.

The simple fact is that for many of us, 30fps is terrible. Unplayable in fact. Perhaps on a console playing from my sofa it's okay, but not on a high end PC.

If a person can't tell the difference between the fluidity of an image at 30fps, 60fps, and 144fps I'd have to question their perceptive capacity. Please note I'm not commenting on it as a matter of preference, but as an inability to actually tell a difference. I wonder if many of these people would happily have 60fps if it were sustainable but have persuaded themselves 30fps is just as good.

 

 

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by Bigbluss

5 hours ago, Bigbluss said:

Theres no winning this debate because it's open to subjective interpretation I think.

The facts seem to be this:

There is a clear and discernible difference between 30fps, 60fps 100fps and to a lesser extent 100fps to 144fps (and the hz equivalent) to many of us. I'm aware of this anecdotally because I can reliably tell (and verify) when my fps drops below 60.

Some people are fine with this. It seems to me that the people that are fine with it come from the contingent of former or current P3D users who are used to using large airliners with static (non panning) views at generally high altitude and, in addition, click buttons to fly the aircraft (not a criticism).

Others who hand fly low with significant panning / TrackIR seem to be far more impacted. In addition to that, in a sim like DCS F14, without a smooth fps I absolutely couldn't read the jet as well as I do at 80fps plus. Every change in movement and buffet helps SA and this is far easier and more intuitive to do at high FPS.

The simple fact is that for many of us, 30fps is terrible. Unplayable in fact. Perhaps on a console playing from my sofa it's okay, but not on a high end PC.

If a person can't tell the difference between the fluidity of an image at 30fps, 60fps, and 144fps I'd have to question their perceptive capacity. Please note I'm not commenting on it as a matter of preference, but as an inability to actually tell a difference. I wonder if many of these people would happily have 60fps if it were sustainable but have persuaded themselves 30fps is just as good.

 

 

Or they can sit here and tell us "we are all wrong"  and 4:1 at "their" machine we will not see a difference because "they don't."   In their own non blind study  they couldn't see a difference so that makes it fact while they try to convince us that 30 FPS is some sort of liquid smooth holy grail and fail to recognize it's not "individuals" moving to 60/120FPS targets it is game developers. No one "wants" 30 FPS, it's a workaround. 

30 FPS is there because they couldn't sustain 60, no other reason period.  What other titles on the PC "target" 30 FPS....  Oh yeah, none because frankly 30FPS in 2021 with the price of a system and GPU today is ludicrous. It's not a target, it's nothing more than a workaround for sub-optimal performance and always has been,  Obviously they aren't going to be = or non discernable, one is a workaround for when the other can't be achieved.

If you can't see the difference your visual acuity quite honestly may not be as high as some others.  That's not a dig it's a medical fact.  People have different visual perception levels.  That's a fact.  Just because "you" don't see it doesn't change the "facts" it is a noticeable and perceivable difference.  Perhaps, just perhaps the issue isn't with everyone else who "can" see the difference.  

I still don't understand how someone could feel a workaround to make performance "adequate" when "optimal" wasn't achievable would be comparable once optimal was achievable....   If I had to cut my HP in half because full power couldn't be achieved and someone was finally able to achieve full HP why in heaven's name would I still want to keep 1/2 the power and try to convince everyone else it's just as powerful... 

So much for over and out LOL.  It's more like Over and Out until someone else posts then I'll come back with a snarky comment, tell them they are wrong and I proved it on my machine and because I don't perceive a difference it's 4:1 statistically everyone else wont notice also then I'll be over and out for real this time LOL...  

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by psolk

38 minutes ago, psolk said:

So much for over and out LOL.  It's more like Over and Out until someone else posts then I'll come back with a snarky comment,

Or, create a poll in a new thread entirely 😉 

I love how almost every AVSIM thread becomes a hot debate....So sad.

Just now, iFlySimX said:

I love how almost every AVSIM thread becomes a hot debate....So sad.

Argument. Some People here don’t know the difference between a debate and an argument, so they just degenerate in to arguments. 

2 hours ago, iFlySimX said:

I love how almost every AVSIM thread becomes a hot debate....So sad.

Well. You know. If someone says „30 FPS is much more fluid than 60 FPS“ and keeps claiming this over and over again, then the course of a thread is obvious. 
 

I even can understand why people limit their frames. I do the same. I limit to 60 FPS. But the way people defend their own solution as the best aside from facts is just laughable. 

 

You know, if he would say „I see no difference between 60 and 120 Hz/FPS“…. Ok. But if you don’t see a difference between 30 and 60 you’re either blind or defending you suboptimal solution. 

22 minutes ago, swiesma said:

You know, if he would say „I see no difference between 60 and 120 Hz/FPS“…. Ok. But if you don’t see a difference between 30 and 60 you’re either blind or defending you suboptimal solution. 

Years ago I came to the conclusion that people operate at different clock speeds themselves.  Has nothing to do with intelligence but rather just a cognitive refresh rate. Although if you met my Mother In Law the theory would make absolute sense. 

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by Stoopy

 

6 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Argument. Some People here don’t know the difference between a debate and an argument, so they just degenerate in to arguments. 

The disputatious incline of some could fast enough degenerate into an argle-bargle or even a donnybrook

I have a medicore i5, gtx 970 and run MSFS on my old Asus VN 279 1080p with high Settings synced to 30 FPS.

It runs fluidly I cannot complain, no need to upgrade at the moment.

But if I had a high end equipment , I‘d change all settings, simple as that.

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by urthgental

So what do you think it would it be like to go from a 32”, 4K, 60hz, non-G Sync to a 27”, 2K, 120hz+, G Sync if I fly mostly airliners? (3080 & i9 at high / ultra).

To be honest, I’m not sure if I can tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps, but I actually have some visual processing challenges. That said, even if I can’t “see” the difference, I have a feeling that my brain can “feel” and difference.

5 hours ago, swiesma said:

Well. You know. If someone says „30 FPS is much more fluid than 60 FPS“ and keeps claiming this over and over again, then the course of a thread is obvious. 

Well now wait a minute.  What if the 60 fps stutters, and 30 fps doesn't.   Or maybe I should not have said that, was this that-which-should-not-be-said?  😁 

1 hour ago, Mace said:

Well now wait a minute.  What if the 60 fps stutters, and 30 fps doesn't.   Or maybe I should not have said that, was this that-which-should-not-be-said?  😁 

Oh boyyyyyy LOOOOL