@MrNuke, I’ll keep this as brief as I can. No, not purchased although I may do so once the massive updates cease but only for low-level VFR flights.

90% of my flying is IFR and at FL390 looking out of the window isn’t going to show me a view much different to what P3D + FTX Global + UTX Europe + FS Global does.

No 3rd party weather program is a big turnoff. I need historical weather for flight starting in daylight in the US and Australasia.

The only Boeing is locked and cannot be refined by 3rd party enthusiasts like has happened with the A320. I have no interest in flying Airbus. I’ll be damned if I’m buying the PMDG737 a third time having bought the version for P3Dv5 seven months ago and the v4 one around 20 months ago.

I use Radar Contact for my IFR flights. There is no equivalent in MSFS.

FS Labs 64-bit Concorde will only be available for P3D v4/5.

I have hundreds of AIG Ai aircraft for airports all over the world. Currently there is no equivalent in MSFS.

Forced updates have broken things before requiring rushed hot fixes. Having no control over whether you choose to update or not is very off putting.

My P3D licence cost 60USD, not 200.

I think that covers it.

50 minutes ago, MrNuke said:

Why are forced updates are a disincentive?

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/608920-broken-mods-after-su6/

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/606674-ctds-after-wu6/

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/608578-endless-checking-for-updates-screen-sim-wont-load/

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/607214-getting-ctds-again…/

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/604536-poll-how-is-the-u5-update-and-hot-fix-behaving-for-you/

Just a handful of multi-page topics referring to issues people have after some of the more recent forced updates.
This is not meant as a dump on MSFS, just highlighting as to why some simmers (me included) prefer to be able to choose our own update schedule. At least when P3D has updates, I can wait for others' feedback before choosing to update to the latest version.

When it comes to software pricing, we shouldn't forget that there are the more clued-in Flight Sim developers who have reduced their prices of their older products.
Off the top of my head, FSDreamTeam, QualityWings, Parallel 42 have all decreased the prices of their older products and should be commended for that. I'd be picking up these older products at the lower prices if I didn't already own most of them!

MSFS = Mona Lisa, beautiful to look at but something where you (the user), can only change the color of the trees and only Leonardo (MS/Asobo) decides when everything is wiped and you can tweak the trees again.

P3D = 60 dollar blank canvas, which is pretty much useless alone however it gives you near endless options to add and tweak to make the painting you desire (and spend a lot of money on). Once you have what you what LM will not force you to wipe and start fresh again.

MSFS might be great someday but not right now, it has far too little content for someone who spend most of their time above FL300 and does not allow for the customization other (older) platforms offer right now and if that will ever happen with MSFS remains to be seen...

47 minutes ago, F737NG said:

 

Just a handful of multi-page topics referring to issues people have after some of the more recent forced updates.
This is not meant as a dump on MSFS, just highlighting as to why some simmers (me included) prefer to be able to choose our own update schedule. At least when P3D has updates, I can wait for others' feedback before choosing to update to the latest version.

When it comes to software pricing, we shouldn't forget that there are the more clued-in Flight Sim developers who have reduced their prices of their older products.
Off the top of my head, FSDreamTeam, QualityWings, Parallel 42 have all decreased the prices of their older products and should be commended for that. I'd be picking up these older products at the lower prices if I didn't already own most of them!

totally agree with this.  Those of us with a ton of addons/hardware are often screwed by forced updates.  Many simply no longer work after a forced update.  The wait can be weeks/months.  Kind of a bummer when you just want to fire up the computer and go for a flight.  

OK, I think the pricing conversation has ran its course and we have digressed from the topic at hand and are now firmly into one sim vs the other and a commentary on MSFS conversation which I adamantly wanted to avoid.

@Ray Proudfoot before this digresses further into a commentary on MSFS I think it is safe to lock now.

-Cheers everyone have a good night!!  

 

 

 

@psolk, are you not interested in any replies from FT over their pricing policy?

My post was in response to a direct question and I see no need to continue that line of debate.

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@psolk, are you not interested in any replies from FT over their pricing policy?

My post was in response to a direct question and I see no need to continue that line of debate.

Very much so if they respond 🙂  I greatly appreciate you taking the time to post as well.  I merely thought the last few posts (realizing yours was a direct response) were heading down a dangerous path... 

Thank you as always!

Thanks Paul for those nice words. Can I ask everyone to keep to the topic please. Feel free to debate the pros and cons of the two sims in another topic. I might join that debate too. 😉

22 hours ago, Juliett Alfa said:

I believe the price difference is related to a fee Lockheed charges developers.

@simbol ?

Lockheed Martin doesn't charge any fee to 3rd party developers.. 

S.

Edited November 3, 20214 yr by simbol

13 hours ago, F737NG said:

When it comes to software pricing, we shouldn't forget that there are the more clued-in Flight Sim developers who have reduced their prices of their older products.

Off the top of my head, FSDreamTeam, QualityWings, Parallel 42 have all decreased the prices of their older products and should be commended for that. I'd be picking up these older products at the lower prices if I didn't already own most of them!

That's what I thought. I could be wrong but I'm sure that both customers and developers would benefit. Customers pick up a gem for lower price and developers sell more of the older products than they would if they didn't reduced the price.

1 hour ago, simbol said:

Lockheed Martin doesn't charge any fee to 3rd party developers.. 

S.

That’s extremely interesting. If memory serves me was that not PMDG’s reason for charging for the upgrade to P3D? Maybe I’m mistaken.

6 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

That’s extremely interesting. If memory serves me was that not PMDG’s reason for charging for the upgrade to P3D? Maybe I’m mistaken.

Pretty sure you are. 

Lockheed Martin has never done such thing, wherever you sell for P3D is yours.. done.. fees you pay are towards the vendors you use to distribute (just like any other software or sim platform). For example SimMarket, Just Flight, Flight One, ORBX, etc.

If you sell via your own website, well you only would be paying fees to your payment system distributor, etc.

S.

32 minutes ago, simbol said:

Pretty sure you are. 

Lockheed Martin has never done such thing, wherever you sell for P3D is yours

Which, to my best knowledge, applies to any simulator. Neither does MS charge  for 3rd party addons nor does Laminar Research or IPACS.

MS gets a certain cut while selling via the integrated Marketplace, but this isn't different from selling the same addons via SimMarket and friends.

Kind regards, Michael

53 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

That’s extremely interesting. If memory serves me was that not PMDG’s reason for charging for the upgrade to P3D? Maybe I’m mistaken.

I think what you are mistaken with is the license change that came with P3D being classified as a simulation platform rather than for entertainment platform like FSX used to be. I think that is what made the prices go up for PMDG as probably entertainment license meant they had to pay lower fees to Boeing to get data, information and god knows what. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. The last part is more of my guesses why the license difference changed the prices for PMDG products.

17 minutes ago, pmb said:

Which, to my best knowledge, applies to any simulator. Neither does MS charge  for 3rd party addons nor does Laminar Research or IPACS.

MS gets a certain cut while selling via the integrated Marketplace, but this isn't different from selling the same addons via SimMarket and friends.

Kind regards, Michael

Correct.

S.