I re-watched the video.  Everything I see on the video is already in AIG?  I use PSXT with AIG if I want online traffic as PSXT has correct gate locations for traffic.  Other than that I don't really see what the fuss is about?

As I said, both programs look great...hope they can partner.  

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by knich

24 minutes ago, knich said:

As one poster said, it would be great if AIG and FSLTS could partner to make a "super" program.  If not, some will use AIG and some will use FSLTS (and some will use Simple Traffic).  It is all good.  You are already established as a giant in the sim industry.  That will not change with the addition of FSLTS.

Super Traffic for MSFS

For all of the traffic needs.

7 minutes ago, knich said:

I re-watched the video.  Everything I see on the video is already in AIG?

They have a very different philosophy beyond models and liveries. Indeed if they could just get along and pool their models and liveries (and all other assets, like sounds) together, everyone would gain. Those are similar and pretty much entirely compatible with a bit of work. 

The main difference is in how traffic is controlled. AIG mostly focuses on offline pre-compiled schedules. Those have the advantage that they can be adapted to the time you fly (so you can fly at night with daytime traffic for instance) and they're not influenced by external issues and fluctuations like covid.

FSLTL mostly focuses on online live traffic using a source that's a lot better than the default simulator's, so you get good traffic volume and it's pretty much a mirroring of what's happening in real life at any given time (with a few limitations). They have the advantage that they don't require upkeep to keep up to date. And if there are special flights of any sort, charters, and such, they do appear.

So they go at the same issue in different ways, and you could say they're different strokes for different people.

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Abriael

22 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

A lot of the models in AIG are awful 

Seems like a wild exaggeration.  Yeah I’ve seen a CRJ2 that looks aged but I’d rather have than in the sim then nothing at all. The AI aircraft generally look great to me and do a good job of filling airports.

I remember a time when we had no P3D compatible CRJ2 and it sucked having that aircraft missing, people were clamouring for AIG to do something about it but their hands were tied due to licensing restrictions on the original model.  They figured out a way to do it with AIG OCI, so I for one appreciate the work that the AIG team does.  And at the end of the day it’s all free, I think people forget that sometimes.

IMHO: It'd be nice if the thread focused on FSLTL, and not on bashing or defending the perceived quality of other solutions' (that have their own thread) models. It's mostly a matter of preference anyway. 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Abriael

1 hour ago, Abriael said:

Nothing is "broken" or illegal until the party involved opts to take action, if they're interested in doing so. That's between FAIB and FSLTL

An EULA doesn't expire until it's changed. If FAIB state no distribution is allowed without express permission that stands. If FSLTL have used FAIB models and that can be proved then this topic is potentially outside the rules of AvSim in allowing discussion of such software.

This is currently under review. More to follow.

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

An EULA doesn't expire until it's changed. If FAIB state no distribution is allowed without express permission that stands. If FSLTL have used FAIB models and that can be proved then this topic is potentially outside the rules of AvSim in allowing discussion of such software.

This is currently under review. More to follow.

From their (FSLTL) discord:
 

Full list of current aircraft:

A20N CFML/PW originally by FAIB
A21N CFML/PW originally by FAIB
A319 CFM/IAE originally by FAIB
A320 CFM (fence and sharklet)/IAE (fence and sharklet)/PW (sharklet) originally by FAIB
A321 CFM (fence and sharklet)/IAE (fence and sharklet) originally by FAIB
A333 GE/PW/RR originally by TFS
A359  originally by FSPXAI
B738 winglets/scimitars originally by FAIB
B739 winglets/scimitars originally by FAIB
B744F GE/PW/RR originally by FAIB
B748 originally by FAIB
B763 GE (+winglets)/PW (+winglets)/RR originally by FAIB
B77W originally by TFS
B789 GE/RR originally by FSPXAI
DH8D originally by TFS
E190 originally by AIA
MD11F GE/PW originally by FSPXAI

WHAT’S THE LEGAL STATUS OF THE MODELS?
We have all permissions on porting these models, except from TFS and FAIB. During the last year I’ve tried all possible means of contacting their original authors, unfortunately with no success, as they left the scene years ago. I decided to give a new life to their work, and do it properly, in which we succeeded. We won’t be using any legal loopholes, tricks and half-measures I see in other projects to mask using others models under their brand. We’ve put a lot of time and effort into these models, so they are used as they were meant to be - as a lightweight, fully animated AI, properly credited and for free. If my concept of the honor contradicts your feeling of justice - don’t use FSLTL, IVAO, AIG or any other project using these old models. Be consistent. 

 

4 hours ago, Abriael said:

Always sad to see a certain member of the AI community doing literally nothing but trying to hinder this project.

When one is confident in what he does, he should look at his own thing instead trying his worst to attack others. Apparently, someone really lacks this confidence.

This comment is way off base. The online model authoring community is full of cowboys that obey no rules. Although tools like Model Converter X are terrific for legal professional and personal use, they are also an avenue for pirating models. There's a long and acrimonious discussion  on fsdeveloper.com about MCX and piracy. As a result, the app's author disabled converting animations of such components as flaps and landing gears in the non-developer version. This is only a trivial hindrance to a motivated pirate. Blender and other freeware authoring tools can also be used to co-opt and then disguise existing models to make them appear as original offerings.

And to make matters worse, the graphics files that make up aircraft liveries are easy to copy and claim as one own's work. Having converted a few simple models to glTF for my own use, it isn't a trivial task, but pretty much anyone with a computer can learn to convert aircraft models and liveries. And if those same people either distribute them online or incorporate them into a commercial product, there's no easy way to stop it.

I have no idea whether this new AI traffic add-on is legal or not. I do know that if it isn't, there's going to be a lot of opposition to its sale.

 

 

5 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

there's going to be a lot of opposition to its sale.

What sale? 🤔 This is entirely freeware. They don't even accept donations. 

Quote

 

CAN I DONATE TO THE PROJECT?

Yes, you can donate some time and skill! Write code, paint a livery, fix a bug, contribute a low poly model or work on existing one. We’re not taking money. 

 

 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Abriael

The huge difference - which seems to have escaped a couple of the prominent posters in this thread - is that FSLTL have chosen to modify and distribute models for which the original creators (FAIB and TFS) still hold the copyright.

AIG does not distribute models, repaints etc., but provides an extremely clever way for the end-user to download (from the creators chosen repositories) and organise everything that is needed.

As long as FSLTL have not obtained permission from the original creators (FAIB and TFS) ( which they have not, according to their Discord) they are in clear breach of the copyright held by said creators.

1 minute ago, Abriael said:

What sale? 🤔 This is entirely freeware. They don't even accept donations. 

It's irrelevant whether an offering is freeware or not. If it's original work, then like many others I will try it. If it's not original and doesn't have the proper permissions for using other's work, then it shouldn't be made available (just like the myriad of other freeware AI traffic add-ons that were based on pirated material).

Attacking anyone for pointing this out is inappropriate.

 

4 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

It's irrelevant whether an offering is freeware or not.

Actually, it's very relevant.

While this is way, way more complex than what a forum discussion can determine, those who shout  "copyright breach!" should likely also do some research on the doctrine of Fair Use, this would have solid chances to be classified as that, being a transformative non-commercial work which does not affect the market value of the original work in any shape or form. 

When one wants to discuss copyright, it's a good idea to have an inkling about the whole thing, which isn't nearly as simple as some make it up to be. 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Abriael

2 minutes ago, Abriael said:

 

Actually, it's very relevant.

While this is way, way more complex than what a forum discussion can determine, those who shout  "copyright breach!" should likely also do some research on the doctrine of Fair Use, this would have solid chances to be classified as that, being a transformative non-commercial work which does not affect the market value of the original work in any shape or form. 

Fair use does not equate to shoplifting.

Shoplifting lol

 

bit of an accusation to be throwing around

 

Jeez 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by garlicbread11

5 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Fair use does not equate to shoplifting.

That's a very, very gross oversimplification of a very complex matter that is usually judged case-by-case. There certainly would be a basic ground for a fair use claim here if it came to that (not that I believe it will, because people can, yanno, talk to each other). 

I don't think grossly unfitting comparisons help the discussion much. No shop has been lifted. 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Abriael