We all know that two of the main differences ( yes, there are many more, ...but) between a flight sim and a real plane are the lack of feedback on the joystick and on the back of the seat of our pants.

To his end, would't be useful to have two new instruments on the simulated cockpit? One visualizing the xyz components of the instantaneus g and the other the forward/backward and left/right stick pressure ?

Is it possible that nobody already thought about this or I am missing something and/or I am too naive?

How exactly would that help? 😉

Force feedback sticks and yokes exist and work with other sims. As far as I know FS2020 does not support those yet.

There are also full motion homebuilt and commercial sims. They get expensive and don't completely simulate the seat of your pants feeling. And that are complex and expensive.

I don't see how vector arrows or whatever would help you feel the plane. prove me wrong

Edited February 7, 20224 yr by 177B

1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

How exactly would that help? 😉

Since we can't feel g or stick pressure at least we could see it.

Wouldn't be this useful?

14 minutes ago, Peppobon said:

Since we can't feel g or stick pressure at least we could see it.

Wouldn't be this useful?

Not for me. A feeling is just that. Seeing numbers or arrows would just be distracting. Watching the view from the windscreen is a better representation of what is happening, I would think. 

1 hour ago, 177B said:

Force feedback sticks and yokes exist and work with other sims. As far as I know FS2020 does not support those yet.

It seems Asobo originally mistakenly thought FFB was basically just XBox controller rumble for special effects.

Anyone interested in Force Feedback should vote in the following thread.  If MSFS actually supported FFB properly then there would be a batch of manufacturers clamouring to get reasonable priced devices back on the market (the contentious patent expired in 2019) .

 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/force-feedback-support/248760

Edited February 7, 20224 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

2 hours ago, Peppobon said:

We all know that two of the main differences ( yes, there are many more, ...but) between a flight sim and a real plane are the lack of feedback on the joystick and on the back of the seat of our pants.

To his end, would't be useful to have two new instruments on the simulated cockpit? One visualizing the xyz components of the instantaneus g and the other the forward/backward and left/right stick pressure ?

Is it possible that nobody already thought about this or I am missing something and/or I am too naive?

You don't look at yoke/stick deflection when you fly real life. Likewise you don't need to it on any specific simulation platform (flyingwise) What really helps is to look at aircraft cowling relative to horizon  (or fly by reference of instruments) to  determine what  feedback/deflection is required. That one of skills one can transfer to real world flying/training. Realistic physical yoke  feed back can only be achieved in real aircraft !

The only way to simulate G's that would be recognizable is to get into a level D - full motion simulator. To do that, you'll need to be working on a type-rating, and you'll probably already hold an ATP rating. In other words, arrows and visual symbols will not give the feelings of G's and the only way to feel that in the simulator is to work towards being an airline pilot. 

Force Feed back would be great, if and when it's offered by MSFS. But once again, that's not simulating G forces. Just control feedback on the yolk/joy stick. 

Hi,

I would find a gauge that shows if the pressure on the stick or yoke ist "trimmed away" extremely helpful.

When i fly in real life, i feel if the aircraft is well trimmed, because the pressure on your stick or yoke simply disappears. This is something that is hard to simulate in any flightsimulator i ever used. I just cant get the trim right. I am always chasing it. A bit to much, not enough, a bit to much,.... Especially during the approach it makes it a lot harder to be stable.

I think PMDG hat something on their 777 PFD during FSX times that showed if the aircraft is trimmed right. As far as i remember it was a inidcation which speed the aircraft will settle at.

Kind regards

Martin

An AoA indexer would be far more useful than an arbitrary g arrow.  The only plane I've used in MSFS that has one is the Kodiak and it works great. 

I had a FF-Joystick in the past and it was nice. Now I have a Buttkicker and it feels much more the plane.

Maybe I am flying wrong, but I don´t need push my yoke far as I need FF, because of a good trimmed plane at landing 😉

Next step Up is a motion chair 🙂

https://nextlevelracing.com/products/next-level-racing-motion-platform-v3/

12 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

It seems Asobo originally mistakenly thought FFB was basically just XBox controller rumble for special effects.

Anyone interested in Force Feedback should vote in the following thread.  If MSFS actually supported FFB properly then there would be a batch of manufacturers clamouring to get reasonable priced devices back on the market (the contentious patent expired in 2019) .

 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/force-feedback-support/248760

In that thread several people report they have functional FFB with their hardware. Are they mistaken?

11 hours ago, orchestra_nl said:

In that thread several people report they have functional FFB with their hardware. Are they mistaken?

They are doing one of two things:

• using Brunner hardware which is really designed for training schools and the better units are type D approved. Brunner apparently provide there own software to emulate FFB functionality
• use something like an FFB2 and purchase add on software that emulates FFB functionality such as XPForce

Some of this software is very good at emulating FFB effects but it is nowhere near as accurate as you would get if the game supported FFB directly and fed back information on actual forces.

On 2/7/2022 at 3:01 PM, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

It seems Asobo originally mistakenly thought FFB was basically just XBox controller rumble for special effects.

Not just Asobo -- in FSX, the Microsoft Force Feedback Joystick only gave you the feeling of pavement while taxiing and a bump when you landed.

There since have been specialized yokes that used some form of FFB to simulate real pressure on the yoke when the airplane wasn't properly trimmed.  I know these worked for P3D, at least, but I don't think they used any of the actual DirectX FFB API to do it, but instead polled other flight parameters (trim and elevator positions) to determine what forces should be present.  In any event, those yokes were expensive ($3-4K, if I recall correctly).

Edited February 9, 20224 yr by JDWalley

On 2/8/2022 at 12:26 AM, Bdub22 said:

To do that, you'll need to be working on a type-rating, and you'll probably already hold an ATP rating.

Normal people can get into them too, but unless you know someone at a training facility it'll be expensive. 

Delta maintains a level-D sim for public use at its museum at the Atlanta airport. $425 for a hour long session that includes 45 minutes of flight time.