I was thinking all day yesterday about a Mars colony.  Not an exploration team that would eventually return to earth, but a colony for people to live in for generations while waiting for a starship to carry them to who knows where?

The colony would, of course, feed the people and provide the breathable air and maintain a proper temperature and provide the basic necessities to sustain life.

You would need doctors and dentists and most certainly psychiatrists to minister to their physical and mental health.   

And speaking of ministering a Christian minister, a Rabbi and a Buddhist monk to minister their religious beliefs.

What would the economy be like?  Would there be factory workers to produce consumer goods and stores and shops to buy these goods in?  Or would everybody just get the bare essentials shipped in on rockets?

What would a colony of people do besides those designing and building the starship that would eventually transport at least some of the colonists to search for a habitable planet?  The closest ones are 37 light years away.  So some sort of warp drive would be required.

One thing that separates us from the rest of the animals on earth is something called the quality of life.  That means different things to different people.  But what constitutes humanity?  We in the modern world need more than to eat and sleep and work and create new people.

Laying in the grass and watching summertime cumulus clouds form and disappear.  Walking in the park with my wife and children or grandchildren or great grandchildren.  Thanksgiving with the extended family.  Christmas, again with the extended family.  Skiing down a slope with new powder snow.  Walking barefoot on the beach and swimming in the surf.  Hunting ducks and geese and quail and pheasant for the table with my shotgun.  Hiking to the top of the pass and looking down the other side of the mountain or, as Betty and I did up until my early 80s hike up the Sacramento mountains and look across 60 miles to the glowing surface of White Sands.  Renting a Cherokee and boring holes in the sky for an hour or so.  Getting into my car and just driving.  Feeling the wind and raindrops on my face.  Sitting in front of the fire watching the flames and stroking the cat on my lap sipping a half glass of wine and eating sharp cheddar cheese and fresh apple slices.  All these things I have done and I very much doubt I would be able to do them in a Mars colony.

What would you do after work except read books, listen to music, watch videos, or perhaps go the recreation center to play chess or cards or board games or video games with virtual reality? Maybe a gym to work out in. That would get old pretty fast.

A colony means permanent habitation.  What do you do with those who grow old and can no longer work?  Let them live out their lives doing nothing but using up some of the limited resources of the colony? Send them back to Earth after their bodies have adapted to a Martian environment? Euthanasia?     

The longest any man has been in space is a year.  Do we really know the effects of months and years in the low gravity and artificial environment of a closed system have on a human system?

Of course of those who volunteer for this only a few would be physically and mentally qualified TO BEGIN WITH. They will still be people and people, no matter how healthy they are to start out with, develop physical and mental frailties. And to maintain and grow a population under a dome on Mars means procreation. How will mates be chosen?  Couple compatibility tests with love between two partners only a minor consideration? (I know you two love each other but your compatibility profiles don't match. We will match you up with your ideal mate. And will children raised in a Martian environment develop like their parents developed on Earth?  Will their muscles develop the same way?  Will their bones be strong or frail? How will their hearts develop?  Will they become a subspecies adapted to Mars? And how will the generations that follow evolve while waiting for starships to be constructed to take them to where?

No doubt the Elon Cult will say all of this can be worked out. Can it?  Really?

If I had the choice of spending just 3 weeks enjoying an Earthlings life waiting for the comet to come or escaping to Mars and adapting to the sterile environment waiting in a Mars colony I would opt for the former. Like Nevil Shute's On the Beach, Waltzing Matilda until the end came.

I strongly suspect Elon's grandiose plan for saving humanity by sending them to the stars generations after he has passed is simply an excuse to massage his ego and play with his rockets.

Noel

Edited February 20, 20224 yr by birdguy

12 minutes ago, birdguy said:

You would need doctors and dentists and most certainly psychiatrists to minister to their physical and mental health.

In that environment, even psychiatrists would need psychiatrists.

28 minutes ago, birdguy said:

I strongly suspect Elon's grandiose plan for saving humanity by sending them to the stars generations after he has passed is simply an excuse to massage his ego and play with his rockets.

Well said Noel. It's all publicity BS to increase his stock holdings i.e. wealth.

Noel, I think you'd be the first one eaten if push came to shove! 😳

I don't know about. I think they would eat one of the females first.

16 minutes ago, W2DR said:

I don't know about. I think they would eat one of the females first.

Politely raised males know it's always ladies first........

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

And to maintain and grow a population under a dome on Mars means procreation. How will mates be chosen?

What if no women want to live on Mars? 

52 minutes ago, charliearon said:

Noel, I think you'd be the first one eaten if push came to shove!

I don't know about that Charlie.  I've got guns.

Noel

15 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

What if no women want to live on Mars?

Then I guess there would be no Mars colony.  

Noel

I want no part of it. I lived in Lubbock, Tx for 7 years. I've seen all the red sand I care to see. 😁

 

Bill W.

19 hours ago, birdguy said:

I was thinking all day yesterday about a Mars colony.  Not an exploration team that would eventually return to earth, but a colony for people to live in for generations while waiting for a starship to carry them to who knows where?

 

Why would they be waiting for a Starship to take them to who knows where? 

 

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"What would the economy be like?  Would there be factory workers to produce consumer goods and stores and shops to buy these goods in?  Or would everybody just get the bare essentials shipped in on rockets?"

 

As said many times, the aim is a self-sustaining colony. If you think that's not possible then you yourself must be from another planet. The human race has demonstrated time and time again that it is capable of achieving what many regard as impossible. The Astronomer Royal said we could never orbit the planet, we did. It was claimed we could never walk on the Moon, we did. It was claimed we could never break the sound barrier, we did. It was claimed that an accelerator like the LHC was impossible, it wasn't, we did. It was claimed we could never detect gravitational waves, we did. Augusta Comte said we could never analyse the constituents of stars, we did. Even Einstein in 1934 said there wasn't the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable, it was, he was wrong, we did. It was said we could never photograph a black hole, we did. It was said we could never create an image of an atom, we did. Invisibility was said to be impossible, now we have metamaterial cloaking. 

 

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What would a colony of people do besides those designing and building the starship that would eventually transport at least some of the colonists to search for a habitable planet?  The closest ones are 37 light years away.  So some sort of warp drive would be required.

 

To assume that would be required is naïve. To believe its impossible to create a comfortable environment on Mars in 50, 100, 150, 200 years time is blind to the capabilities of the human race, our creativity and the incredible technical achievements that we are obviously capable of. And why would we need to zoom off to another star, when we have the Earth nearby for anyone who wishes to return home? If its an "Earth is uninhabitable" scenario you are referring to then its better to be in a Mars Dome than not too exist at all... obviously! 

 

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We in the modern world need more than to eat and sleep and work and create new people.

 

Err... and you can do plenty more than that in a comfortable Mars dome. 

 

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Laying in the grass and watching summertime cumulus clouds form and disappear.  Walking in the park with my wife and children or grandchildren or great grandchildren.  Thanksgiving with the extended family.  Christmas, again with the extended family.  Skiing down a slope with new powder snow.  Walking barefoot on the beach and swimming in the surf. 

 

Err... well if the Earth is uninhabitable you would have no choice but to forgo those pleasures would you. You would have to adopt other pleasures, you would have to hop into your Mars Rover and head over to the largest canyon in the solar system "Valles Marineris" and marvel at the incredible views. Or the stunning Olympus Mons, or maybe explore the lava tubes. Or do a bit of astronomy in the clear skies. Or maybe strap some wings on an literally fly like a bird in the pressurized dome thanks to low gravity. And of courses far enough into the future, with a sophisticated enough dome, there would be lovely parks to explore and have a nice little pick nick and even a bit of wildlife spotting. Better than not existing at all isn't it? 🙄   If the Earth was inhabitable, err... go home. 

 

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A colony means permanent habitation.  What do you do with those who grow old and can no longer work? Let them live out their lives doing nothing but using up some of the limited resources of the colony? 

 

Same as we do here of course. A significant colony on mars would be self sustaining and expanding, and with a systems in place that are no different than on Earth. What limited resources? Your scenario was way into the future and a full scale Mars Dome mega colony. Self-sustaining! There would be no limit to resources. 

 

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The longest any man has been in space is a year.

 

Yes, no gravity, or technically, micro gravity.

Mars has a gravitational field. Will that cause any kind of health issues, we don't have all the data yet. But we will when we get there in a few years with non-permanent, scientists and engineers. Nobody is dumping one million people on Mars next year. After the first scientific missions there will be many decades of trips to Mars, studying the geology, gathering valuable scientific data, whether life has ever existed there, if its there now, what it can tell us about its formation, and yes, how the human body copes. If there are biological issues, what kind of drug intervention might mitigate those issues. How well the human body naturally adapts, will genetic therapies be helpful. And if there are biological issues that cant be mitigated no matter what we do (very unlikely) then we obviously won't be able to stay there permanently will we. If we predict that permanent settlers will be on Mars in lets say 100 years, then it would be a bizarre to not believe we would be able to mitigate any biological issues with technology 100 years in advance of todays. 

 

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How will mates be chosen?

 

Okay this is getting silly now, and I suspect you are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find anything negative you can think of. Refences to "Elon Cult" seem to confirm that.

We get it, you've told us before, many times, in fact over and over gain. You don't like the idea of a Mars base and you think we should all sit here, watch the big bad asteroid obliterate us and just take what's coming without trying to save ourselves.

No need to keep telling us the same or racking your brain to find anything negative you can use.

19 hours ago, dmwalker said:

What if no women want to live on Mars? 

 

That's very sexist.  🙀  You are saying men are adventurous and daring and want to explore new worlds and carry out there scientific experiments but potentially no women will.  I hope this isn't a "kitchen sink" attitude. 😜

The non-profit Mars One Foundation, looking to send colonist to Mars, have something like 200,000 volunteers. And yes, large numbers of women.

Don't worry, when you get to Mars there will be plenty of fruity stuff.  You and you girlfriend will be flying around in the low gravity with your wings, like lovely birds... no like butterflies. It will be beautiful. 

Easy, Martin!  You're getting close to bursting a gasket! 🤔

I can't believe that when I was a kid, I was convinced I had been born at the wrong time.  I wanted SO much to be 'out there among the stars' living like on Star Wars or BattleStar Gallactica.  I certainly didn't fit in here.

Now, if it wasn't for the warm sun and the green grass and trees and the white puffy clouds and blue sky,  I think I'd go even more insane than I already am.  I'm so very thankful for these simple things.

2 hours ago, charliearon said:

Easy, Martin!  You're getting close to bursting a gasket! 🤔

 

Nope, not me. Perfectly calm. No gaskets busting. I have no gaskets.