Ryzen 7 5800X3D - Brilliant MSFS performance

[pstrub 998]

2 hours ago, Makinen11 said:

So, this or a 12700K for MSFS? I would be coming from a 7700K overclocked to an inch of its life to keep up so it would be a new platform for me either way.

1 hour ago, wiler said:

Personally I would wait for the new AMD ryzen platform to drop later this year. the 5800x3d is the last cpu on the am4 platform, you wont be able to upgrade again. 

I agree that if an AMD platform is an option for you, and you can wait half a year longer, by all means do so. 

I know hardware is getting better all the time, and it's only half of what you paid as soon as you walk out of the shop... 

But this time it's a bit different. I'll explain.

The AM4 platform (CPU socket, chipsets) was released in 2017 alongside the first gen Ryzen (1700, 1800 etc), and will be superseded by AM5 when Zen4 launches later this year - after more than 5 years. And through BIOS/EFI updates, many of the old X370/B350 boards still support the latest CPUs up to the 5800X3d. This depends a bit on the board manufacturer because they're the ones that need to supply the BIOS updates, but as for the hardware, it works. Maybe with some drawbacks due to slower RAM interfaces, but for practical purposes the performance loss is in the single-digit range. That's about a factor of 2x improvement of single core performance from a Ryzen 1800X to 5800X3D on the same platform, just with a drop-in replacement of the CPU.

No one can predict if AM5 will again last 5 years - technology changes, and at some point a hard cut is necessary in order to keep up with the pace of technology advancing. But still the goal is clear: AM5 is going to be supported for several generations of CPUs, which makes for very easy upgrading to new CPU generations, in contrast to the Intel platforms that allowed you to upgrade one generation at best. AM5 is coming in fall this year, and if you can wait for it, it's not a good idea to buy into a platform that goes obsolete in just a couple of months more.

If you prefer to upgrade the whole platform every time you upgrade your CPU, all this won't matter to you, then a Ryzen 5800X3d can be a great choice. But for those who already own an AM4 system, the 5800X3D can offer excellent value especially for MSFS. I'm going to sell my 3900X on ebay and replace it with a 5800X3D in the coming months, and I won't have to upgrade before Zen5 arrives.

TLDR: AM5 is coming in fall, and it's going to provide a couple of years of platform stability with possible drop-in CPU upgrades over several generations. If you can wait for it, then don't buy into a platform that becomes obsolete very soon.

 

 

[Makinen11 184]

Thank you for the advice. I am aware AM4 is almost dead, but then is it worth going for Alder Lake which is a brand new platform just for this? If I have learnt anything from Intel (having been burnt a few times) is buying with upgrade paths in mind 3 years down the line is that you will need a new motherboard anyway... The only thing I have managed to keep between upgrades is the RAM and actually with AM5 only supporting DDR5 I will have to throw away 32 GB worth of corsair dominator sticks @3200 for new and high latency DDR5 ram that will be improved down the line.

Going with AM4 now, I get a cpu that I will keep for at least 3 years, and only upgrade the Gpu (currently a 1080Ti) early next year when rtx3000 has become legacy and cheaper or the 4000 series widely available together with ATx v3 psu 's... 

TLDR:

I intend to keep the motherboard and cpu for at least 3 years and have to wait for improved DDR5 ram, new ATx v3 power supplies etc etc. So it will be a whole lot more waiting. So even if it is a dead end, going with AM4 now is also very cheap as I will be keeping the Ram as well... Then again if the new one is 100% faster I will feel like an word not allowed. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Makinen11

[wiler 394]

2 hours ago, Makinen11 said:

Thank you for the advice. I am aware AM4 is almost dead, but then is it worth going for Alder Lake which is a brand new platform just for this? If I have learnt anything from Intel (having been burnt a few times) is buying with upgrade paths in mind 3 years down the line is that you will need a new motherboard anyway... The only thing I have managed to keep between upgrades is the RAM and actually with AM5 only supporting DDR5 I will have to throw away 32 GB worth of corsair dominator sticks @3200 for new and high latency DDR5 ram that will be improved down the line.

Going with AM4 now, I get a cpu that I will keep for at least 3 years, and only upgrade the Gpu (currently a 1080Ti) early next year when rtx3000 has become legacy and cheaper or the 4000 series widely available together with ATx v3 psu 's... 

TLDR:

I intend to keep the motherboard and cpu for at least 3 years and have to wait for improved DDR5 ram, new ATx v3 power supplies etc etc. So it will be a whole lot more waiting. So even if it is a dead end, going with AM4 now is also very cheap as I will be keeping the Ram as well... Then again if the new one is 100% faster I will feel like an word not allowed. 

Agreed that ddr5 ram will need to be purchased adding to cost. Ive been w AMD AM4 starting w the 1700x all the way till now w the 5900x and had 2 motherboards, not bad for about 6 years. I may get a 5800x3d and throw it into this system and sell the 5900x though, I wouldnt rule it out, but it seems that the price gauging has begun here in europe as the chip is being sold for $640 at retail which is a complete ripoff. 

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

Since MSFS seems to be responding well to large cache sizes, I think that Raptor Lake might have the edge later this year (rumoured to contain 68MB of cache in total). Zen 4 will come with only 32MB L3 cache for a while, as V-Cache variants will have to wait until Zen 3 is EOL before they can be produced (might take longer since 3D-stacking with 5nm is supposedly not possible at this time), however it will double the L2 cache which might help. DDR5 prices should be better by then, but not as good as DDR4 until later in 2023.

It may also be worth waiting until Sim Update 10 to see if DirectX 12 helps with thread utilisation.

[Mikeingreen 139]

Seeing all the positive results that you guys have had with the new chip I am now glad that the buyer on Ebay has not as of yet PAID for my 5800X3D that I listed. This time tomorrow I can cancel the auction and give it another try. I am now convinced that my test results were being compromised by the PG bug introduced with SU9. Hopefully I get to test that theory tomorrow.

[pstrub 998]

40 minutes ago, Makinen11 said:

TLDR: I intend to keep the motherboard and cpu for at least 3 years and have to wait for improved DDR5 ram, new ATx v3 power supplies etc etc. So it will be a whole lot more waiting. So even if it is a dead end, going with AM4 now is also very cheap as I will be keeping the Ram as well... Then again if the new one is 100% faster I will feel like an word not allowed. 

Intel doesn't really promise any reliable upgrade paths, and from what I've seen in the past 10 years, any chipset/mainboard supported 2 generations of CPUs at best. So this is a big plus on the AMD side, at least if you intend to make use of these kind of upgrades. Coming from a 3900X, the 5800X3D will give me an approximate 50% performance uplift in MSFS (haven't really made use of the 12 cores in other software), with a simple drop-in upgrade. But admittedly we're lucky with MSFS, it's at the top end of performance gains for the 5800X3D. 

Given that you've put some consideration into the end-of-life issues with AM4, I don't think it's a bad decision. With Intel systems you're in the same situation pretty much all the time. It depends a bit on whether or not MSFS is your main focus for the new system, I seem to remember that X-Plane favours Intel in the latest generation, and with other games the gains depend a lot on the specific title. 

I understand your being cautious about getting onboard a new generation right after launch. There may be some issues with compatibility and stability, even if it runs just fine for most users. And the prices for fast DDR5 modules are still ... elevated ... for a minor benefit (at least for now). 

[Reset XPDR 1,346]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:21 AM, TravelRunner404 said:

The world update photogrammetry cities are somehow messing up other cities while on the ground.  Specifically in the US, but the original poster to catch it in the MSFS forums was in Spain I believe.  If you have all the world updates installed and photogrammetry on, go park your plane at KJFK, and you'll notice some dismal performance and a low working GPU while your main thread gets taken back behind the barn.  Turn off photogrammetry and you can go from 27 FPS back up to 40+ FPS.  But it's not the US photogrammetry that is messing things up, it's the world update entries for photogrammetry cities.  There are 7 small content files installed with each world update.  If you uninstall all of those, go back to KJFK, turn ON photogrammetry and like magic you are back at 40+ FPS.  It's literally a 50% increase and you don't have to turn off photogrammetry.  Even weirder is that it's some combination of those 7 installed together that messes everything up.  If you only install Germany, everything is fine.  Or say UK, it's also fine, maybe a 2-3 FPS drop.  Very little difference when only one is installed, but when all 7 are installed the FPS at US airports tanks. 

So it's best to simply uninstall all 7 of them and restart the sim.  If you are going to go flying in France, you can install France's file and fly.  From what I can tell you don't need to restart if you install one.  Then uninstall it and restart the sim if you go back to the US.  You don't need to uninstall the entire 5 GB world update, only that small photogrammetry file.  I think 6 of them are 500kb or so, and Germany is 300mb for some reason.  This was also tested with Rolling Cache OFF.  I don't know what would happen if you have 40 GIG rolling cache, you uninstall those files and go back to KJFK.  If it was cached with those files installed it might not do the trick.  Once it's all uninstalled I am sure you can turn back on the rolling cache.

Here is a photo of what I am talking about in the Content Manager: https://ibb.co/gyP8YbB.

Just stumbled across this suggestion and, having experienced low FPS at a bunch of US cities in the last few days, thought I'd give it a try. I am pleased to report that this has bumped my FPS up by around 40% in those cities, which in VR is a very good thing. I have also noticed that my GPU is now being fully utilised whereas before it was lucky to hit 50%.

Thanks so much for this tip!

[Simple B 141]

On 4/27/2022 at 8:45 PM, pilot-br said:

I hope you’ll find both the proc and the performance with it as I did. Mileage may vary in different systems so I tried to show you a stock install and default aircraft so you could give it a try and measure the gain.

So I managed to bag a 5800x3d Wednesday from Amazon, also picked up an arctic 2 240 cooler to replace the stock air that came with the 3900x that the new chip is replacing.

Installed yesterday without any issue.

I run Track ir, 4k tv on a rx 6800 not XT and am delighted with the performance gain.

I can now maintain over 30 fps on the ground/ on final and have increased my graphics settings lod. I now run Ultra with lods adjusted to 180 and 150 up from 120 and 100. I tried Latinvfr KSAN and Macca sims EGCC with live and multiplayer traffic using AIG models flying Kodiak and TBM. KSAN average 33 on the ground and EGCC average 38. This was smooth with my Track Ir. Inflight 50fps which is no change. Previously i would get a stuttery experience of 26 to 30 at both with my old settings on the 3900x.

I have now stepped back the res from full 4k to 3200x1800 upscaled to 4k with AMD RSR as unfortunately my graphics card still can't pop out instruments to a second screen (1080p) when I run at 4k in sim and this soloution works for me and allows me to maintain the FPS i need. In general with pop out instruments RSR I am getting equal and more fps than 4k without pop out instrument.

CPU temps max around 62 degrees and my GPU is now working harder all of the time, no more 50% while it waits for the CPU.

I would say if you are CPU bound on the ground and get good frames in the air, the X3D goes a long way to unlocking the on the ground bottleneck on the CPU. For an older AMD CPU swap I see this as excellent upgrade without the expense of a full board and ram swap that will be required for the next generation AMD.

Totally happy with the purchase, and can noe spend more time enjoying the sim without niggling fps issues that led to far to much time messing with settings.

[pilotter 269]

I have a 5900X, wonder if  I would benefit of the larger cache size......

[pilot-br 11]

On 5/8/2022 at 7:56 AM, pilotter said:

I have a 5900X, wonder if  I would benefit of the larger cache size......

Yes

[pilot-br 11]

On 5/8/2022 at 6:36 AM, Simple B said:

So I managed to bag a 5800x3d Wednesday from Amazon, also picked up an arctic 2 240 cooler to replace the stock air that came with the 3900x that the new chip is replacing.

Installed yesterday without any issue.

I run Track ir, 4k tv on a rx 6800 not XT and am delighted with the performance gain.

I can now maintain over 30 fps on the ground/ on final and have increased my graphics settings lod. I now run Ultra with lods adjusted to 180 and 150 up from 120 and 100. I tried Latinvfr KSAN and Macca sims EGCC with live and multiplayer traffic using AIG models flying Kodiak and TBM. KSAN average 33 on the ground and EGCC average 38. This was smooth with my Track Ir. Inflight 50fps which is no change. Previously i would get a stuttery experience of 26 to 30 at both with my old settings on the 3900x.

I have now stepped back the res from full 4k to 3200x1800 upscaled to 4k with AMD RSR as unfortunately my graphics card still can't pop out instruments to a second screen (1080p) when I run at 4k in sim and this soloution works for me and allows me to maintain the FPS i need. In general with pop out instruments RSR I am getting equal and more fps than 4k without pop out instrument.

CPU temps max around 62 degrees and my GPU is now working harder all of the time, no more 50% while it waits for the CPU.

I would say if you are CPU bound on the ground and get good frames in the air, the X3D goes a long way to unlocking the on the ground bottleneck on the CPU. For an older AMD CPU swap I see this as excellent upgrade without the expense of a full board and ram swap that will be required for the next generation AMD.

Totally happy with the purchase, and can noe spend more time enjoying the sim without niggling fps issues that led to far to much time messing with settings.

That’s nice!!! Glad you found your frames as I did. There lots of times when GPU was available but couldn’t be pushed further and the new proc did it. Much more enjoyable now if you care a lot about the smoothness 

[webstef68 52]

Well after reading this post i ordered one and did the swap with my r7 7900x. Just before, i parked at LFPG, a very demanding airport in the Kodiak, Aig traffic on. I mesured  28 fps. As soon as i changed to the new processor, i did exactly the same and could achieve a nice 52 fps (very same conditions and location). So thanks to the original poster of this thread, i will keep my rtx2800ti for a while 🥳

[Poppingcork 24]

On 5/8/2022 at 5:36 AM, Simple B said:

So I managed to bag a 5800x3d Wednesday from Amazon, also picked up an arctic 2 240 cooler to replace the stock air that came with the 3900x that the new chip is replacing.

Installed yesterday without any issue.

I run Track ir, 4k tv on a rx 6800 not XT and am delighted with the performance gain.

I can now maintain over 30 fps on the ground/ on final and have increased my graphics settings lod. I now run Ultra with lods adjusted to 180 and 150 up from 120 and 100. I tried Latinvfr KSAN and Macca sims EGCC with live and multiplayer traffic using AIG models flying Kodiak and TBM. KSAN average 33 on the ground and EGCC average 38. This was smooth with my Track Ir. Inflight 50fps which is no change. Previously i would get a stuttery experience of 26 to 30 at both with my old settings on the 3900x.

I have now stepped back the res from full 4k to 3200x1800 upscaled to 4k with AMD RSR as unfortunately my graphics card still can't pop out instruments to a second screen (1080p) when I run at 4k in sim and this soloution works for me and allows me to maintain the FPS i need. In general with pop out instruments RSR I am getting equal and more fps than 4k without pop out instrument.

CPU temps max around 62 degrees and my GPU is now working harder all of the time, no more 50% while it waits for the CPU.

I would say if you are CPU bound on the ground and get good frames in the air, the X3D goes a long way to unlocking the on the ground bottleneck on the CPU. For an older AMD CPU swap I see this as excellent upgrade without the expense of a full board and ram swap that will be required for the next generation AMD.

Totally happy with the purchase, and can noe spend more time enjoying the sim without niggling fps issues that led to far to much time messing with settings.

What MB would you suggest with the 5800x3D??  Do you have to use liquid cooling??

[molleh 451]

45 minutes ago, webstef68 said:

Well after reading this post i ordered one and did the swap with my r7 7900x. Just before, i parked at LFPG, a very demanding airport in the Kodiak, Aig traffic on. I mesured  28 fps. As soon as i changed to the new processor, i did exactly the same and could achieve a nice 52 fps (very same conditions and location). So thanks to the original poster of this thread, i will keep my rtx2800ti for a while 🥳

holy cow. now i definitely can't wait to upgrade my processor later this year, lol.

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

1 hour ago, webstef68 said:

Well after reading this post i ordered one and did the swap with my r7 7900x. Just before, i parked at LFPG, a very demanding airport in the Kodiak, Aig traffic on. I mesured  28 fps. As soon as i changed to the new processor, i did exactly the same and could achieve a nice 52 fps (very same conditions and location). So thanks to the original poster of this thread, i will keep my rtx2800ti for a while 🥳

you are welcome sir