Ryzen 7 5800X3D - Brilliant MSFS performance

[TravelRunner404 596]

Alright. I’ll go through and test the remaining places but I get 63 FPS vs 50 FPS in the exact same scenario sitting at gate 14 B KORD sunny weather.  All settings ULTRA with 200/200. I should also note that I have deleted the photogrammetry DLC that destroys FPS in US photogrammetry cities. This is the first thing everyone should do bc even on the 5900x that brought me up from 35 FPS to 50 FPS. It’s a huge “bug” of sorts. You don’t need to uninstall all 20 gig or whatever of the world updates. Only the tiny Photogrammetry cities parts. There are 7 of them and 6 are less than 500kb yes, kilobytes. Germany is 300mb for some reason. 

[Mikeingreen 139]

Bios is the latest and shows 5800x3d support. I updated the chipset drivers just to make sure. I will go try KORD just to see.

[TravelRunner404 596]

Okay here are the screenshots and results of my testing this afternoon.  I tested in sunny weather, Ultra Preset, 200/200.  I have a 3090 GPU and 32GB RAM.  I swapped a 5900x for a 5800x3D.  In both scenarios SMT was turned off.  With the 5900x I had a PBO Auto OC using Ryzen software so nothing special.  This was done at 4k.  Airport vehicles, planes, were at 30.  No AI was on.

 

FlightBeam KORD (Gate 14) 5900x : https://ibb.co/Fnr52WN 49.5 FPS

FlightBeam KORD (Gate 14) 5800x3D: https://ibb.co/6WTkjt5 59.4 FPS (20% improvement)

Premium Deluxe KJFK (Gate C1002) 5900x: https://ibb.co/9TX1Vbm 46.3 FPS

Premium Deluxe KJFK (Gate C1002) 5800x3D: https://ibb.co/7kT5sYS 59.2 FPS (27.8% improvement)

FlyTampa KBOS (Gate C20) 5900x: https://ibb.co/zrc02cL 45.3 FPS

FlyTampa KBOS (Gate C20) 5800x3D: https://ibb.co/dsTxgQ3 60 FPS (32.4% improvement)

 

A couple notes:

-In all these scenarios I was 100% CPU bound and it was very clear that two cores were being slaughtered by MSFS.  GPU was not an issue.  Make sure you are truly CPU bound on the ground before running out to your local Micro Center and blowing $450.

-The 5900x was never much of an issue running at 30 FPS V-Sync once I figured out to delete those PG files.  That alone will get any high end system up to the 45-50 FPS.  So it's hard to say if these extra 10 FPS were worth it considering you still can't max out at a 60 FPS V-Sync.  I could probably Terrain LOD 300-400 quite easily now and V-Sync at 30 FPS but those things didn't much bother me before.

-When you pan your head the FPS still drops down and then back up.  That didn't go away.  It will drop to 40-45 and instantly go back up to those high end numbers.  It's the exact same type of drop as I saw with the 5900x.  I didn't pay much attention if it stuttered.

-I had no AI on. I only park planes at the gates and right now I use default planes.  If your airports look like an ant colony from the aerial view and they are loaded with a bunch of AIG models I have no idea what results you will get.  I am pretty sure AI is still an absolute CPU hog, but I don't mess much with this.

-When I first loaded SMT was ON and the results were basically the same.  In general I've always assumed it's best to turn off SMT but looking at the Ryzen Master app it was still throttling up 2 threads to max Mhz while the other 14 were chugging along.  With only 8 threads the spread looked exactly the same.  I am wondering if SMT on isn't a bad thing with these Auto OC.  Since the 5800x3D has all that disabled it might make sense.

-It certainly ran hotter than the 5900x, but then again I only swap CPUs a handful of times a decade so maybe I didn't reapply everything perfectly.  Nothing crazy, I think 78C when going all out.

-Is it worth it? I was surprised for sure.  I think you will get some headroom on the CPU to push a few other settings.  Maybe it's AI, maybe it's Terrain LOD, maybe it's the breathing room you need for the 737, Fenix, BAE 146, and Maddog coming soon.  It's hard to say, but I do think if you are on a high end system and you clear up the PG "Bug" with those world updates you have enough headroom to save yourself the money until next generation comes along at Christmas.  It won't get you to 60 FPS, and I am a VSync smooth guy at 30 FPS.  You'll still run into CPU issues around 55-60 FPS, just not at 40-45 FPS.  If you Vsync 30 it probably never made much of a difference.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by TravelRunner404

[Mikeingreen 139]

May have found something, Win11 Dev version downloaded a driver for my 6800XT a day or so ago. I found it wasn't playing nice with the AMD Adrenelin software. I changed back to the latest AMD driver and got the FPS at JFK back to what I had with the 5800x @ 4200 but the 5800x3d is only @ 3600. I am tired of fooling with it for tonight and will try again tomorrow with the newer chip at 4200.

[pilotter 252]

guys when you install een new processor, do a fresh install;

new bios

latest chipset drivers

Gpu drivers

windows 11 updates

MSFS

addons

interested in the 5800X3d  if it gives 10 fps more..... I am most of the time CPU limited when I go over Tlod 140

[bbsmitz 132]

30 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

 

-Is it worth it? I was surprised for sure.  I think you will get some headroom on the CPU to push a few other settings.  Maybe it's AI, maybe it's Terrain LOD, maybe it's the breathing room you need for the 737, Fenix, BAE 146, and Maddog coming soon.  It's hard to say, but I do think if you are on a high end system and you clear up the PG "Bug" with those world updates you have enough headroom to save yourself the money until next generation comes along at Christmas.  It won't get you to 60 FPS, and I am a VSync smooth guy at 30 FPS.  You'll still run into CPU issues around 55-60 FPS, just not at 40-45 FPS.  If you Vsync 30 it probably never made much of a difference.

 

Thank you so much for the careful work and comparison! I'm leaning towards giving this a miss; I think I'd prefer to have the versatility of the 5950x going forward, particularly if there's a bug that's making things run much worse than usual. Speaking of which, can you explain what this bug is? Do I need to turn off PG completely? Or do I delete specific areas?

[TravelRunner404 596]

1 hour ago, bbsmitz said:

Speaking of which, can you explain what this bug is? Do I need to turn off PG completely? Or do I delete specific areas?

The world update photogrammetry cities are somehow messing up other cities while on the ground.  Specifically in the US, but the original poster to catch it in the MSFS forums was in Spain I believe.  If you have all the world updates installed and photogrammetry on, go park your plane at KJFK, and you'll notice some dismal performance and a low working GPU while your main thread gets taken back behind the barn.  Turn off photogrammetry and you can go from 27 FPS back up to 40+ FPS.  But it's not the US photogrammetry that is messing things up, it's the world update entries for photogrammetry cities.  There are 7 small content files installed with each world update.  If you uninstall all of those, go back to KJFK, turn ON photogrammetry and like magic you are back at 40+ FPS.  It's literally a 50% increase and you don't have to turn off photogrammetry.  Even weirder is that it's some combination of those 7 installed together that messes everything up.  If you only install Germany, everything is fine.  Or say UK, it's also fine, maybe a 2-3 FPS drop.  Very little difference when only one is installed, but when all 7 are installed the FPS at US airports tanks. 

So it's best to simply uninstall all 7 of them and restart the sim.  If you are going to go flying in France, you can install France's file and fly.  From what I can tell you don't need to restart if you install one.  Then uninstall it and restart the sim if you go back to the US.  You don't need to uninstall the entire 5 GB world update, only that small photogrammetry file.  I think 6 of them are 500kb or so, and Germany is 300mb for some reason.  This was also tested with Rolling Cache OFF.  I don't know what would happen if you have 40 GIG rolling cache, you uninstall those files and go back to KJFK.  If it was cached with those files installed it might not do the trick.  Once it's all uninstalled I am sure you can turn back on the rolling cache.

Here is a photo of what I am talking about in the Content Manager: https://ibb.co/gyP8YbB.

Edited April 23, 2022 by TravelRunner404

[V1ROTA7E 718]

1 hour ago, TravelRunner404 said:

-Is it worth it? I was surprised for sure.  I think you will get some headroom on the CPU to push a few other settings.  Maybe it's AI, maybe it's Terrain LOD, maybe it's the breathing room you need for the 737, Fenix, BAE 146, and Maddog coming soon.  It's hard to say, but I do think if you are on a high end system and you clear up the PG "Bug" with those world updates you have enough headroom to save yourself the money until next generation comes along at Christmas.  It won't get you to 60 FPS, and I am a VSync smooth guy at 30 FPS.  You'll still run into CPU issues around 55-60 FPS, just not at 40-45 FPS.  If you Vsync 30 it probably never made much of a difference.

Thanks for the quick bench. Would love to see what kind of perf you'd get using a more complex plane under more realistic scenarios...(taxiing, final approach, etc). It sounds promising. Dunno if i'll personally make the switch to team red, but we'll have to see.

[Maxis 1,857]

1 hour ago, TravelRunner404 said:

Okay here are the screenshots and results of my testing this afternoon.  I tested in sunny weather, Ultra Preset, 200/200.  I have a 3090 GPU and 32GB RAM.  I swapped a 5900x for a 5800x3D.  In both scenarios SMT was turned off.  With the 5900x I had a PBO Auto OC using Ryzen software so nothing special.  This was done at 4k.  Airport vehicles, planes, were at 30.  No AI was on.

 

FlightBeam KORD (Gate 14) 5900x : https://ibb.co/Fnr52WN 49.5 FPS

FlightBeam KORD (Gate 14) 5800x3D: https://ibb.co/6WTkjt5 59.4 FPS (20% improvement)

Premium Deluxe KJFK (Gate C1002) 5900x: https://ibb.co/9TX1Vbm 46.3 FPS

Premium Deluxe KJFK (Gate C1002) 5800x3D: https://ibb.co/7kT5sYS 59.2 FPS (27.8% improvement)

FlyTampa KBOS (Gate C20) 5900x: https://ibb.co/zrc02cL 45.3 FPS

FlyTampa KBOS (Gate C20) 5800x3D: https://ibb.co/dsTxgQ3 60 FPS (32.4% improvement)

 

A couple notes:

-In all these scenarios I was 100% CPU bound and it was very clear that two cores were being slaughtered by MSFS.  GPU was not an issue.  Make sure you are truly CPU bound on the ground before running out to your local Micro Center and blowing $450.

-The 5900x was never much of an issue running at 30 FPS V-Sync once I figured out to delete those PG files.  That alone will get any high end system up to the 45-50 FPS.  So it's hard to say if these extra 10 FPS were worth it considering you still can't max out at a 60 FPS V-Sync.  I could probably Terrain LOD 300-400 quite easily now and V-Sync at 30 FPS but those things didn't much bother me before.

-When you pan your head the FPS still drops down and then back up.  That didn't go away.  It will drop to 40-45 and instantly go back up to those high end numbers.  It's the exact same type of drop as I saw with the 5900x.  I didn't pay much attention if it stuttered.

-I had no AI on. I only park planes at the gates and right now I use default planes.  If your airports look like an ant colony from the aerial view and they are loaded with a bunch of AIG models I have no idea what results you will get.  I am pretty sure AI is still an absolute CPU hog, but I don't mess much with this.

-When I first loaded SMT was ON and the results were basically the same.  In general I've always assumed it's best to turn off SMT but looking at the Ryzen Master app it was still throttling up 2 threads to max Mhz while the other 14 were chugging along.  With only 8 threads the spread looked exactly the same.  I am wondering if SMT on isn't a bad thing with these Auto OC.  Since the 5800x3D has all that disabled it might make sense.

-It certainly ran hotter than the 5900x, but then again I only swap CPUs a handful of times a decade so maybe I didn't reapply everything perfectly.  Nothing crazy, I think 78C when going all out.

-Is it worth it? I was surprised for sure.  I think you will get some headroom on the CPU to push a few other settings.  Maybe it's AI, maybe it's Terrain LOD, maybe it's the breathing room you need for the 737, Fenix, BAE 146, and Maddog coming soon.  It's hard to say, but I do think if you are on a high end system and you clear up the PG "Bug" with those world updates you have enough headroom to save yourself the money until next generation comes along at Christmas.  It won't get you to 60 FPS, and I am a VSync smooth guy at 30 FPS.  You'll still run into CPU issues around 55-60 FPS, just not at 40-45 FPS.  If you Vsync 30 it probably never made much of a difference.

 

Kinda what i was looking for in terms of test scenario. Looks like ill be trying to get one of these chips in due course.. probably for my birthday in June. May has too many expenses going on and i refuse to apply the plastic.

[liamp51 541]

I've been contemplating updating my CPU for quite a while now. I'm using an i7 8700K at 4.8Ghz. It's been pretty good thus far but I'm definitely starting to see it negatively affect my experience with the sim. I have my TLOD at 100 as anything above about 125 in PG areas or densely populated areas in general really starts to trash my main thread. After seeing the latest benchmarks with the 5800X3D I'm even more tempted to upgrade. I'm still trying to make my mind up as the next two sim updates might positively influence my performance. Either way, I'll need a new MOBO so I'm open to either AMD or Intel. We shall see...

[bbsmitz 132]

1 minute ago, liamp51 said:

I've been contemplating updating my CPU for quite a while now. I'm using an i7 8700K at 4.8Ghz. It's been pretty good thus far but I'm definitely starting to see it negatively affect my experience with the sim. I have my TLOD at 100 as anything above about 125 in PG areas or densely populated areas in general really starts to trash my main thread. After seeing the latest benchmarks with the 5800X3D I'm even more tempted to upgrade. I'm still trying to make my mind up as the next two sim updates might positively influence my performance. Either way, I'll need a new MOBO so I'm open to either AMD or Intel. We shall see...

Honestly if you're not already on AM4 it might be worth waiting for the next gen Ryzen chips.  Should be launching by end of this year. 5800x3d is kind of a like a last hurrah for the platform.

 

[liamp51 541]

Just now, bbsmitz said:

Honestly if you're not already on AM4 it might be worth waiting for the next gen Ryzen chips.  Should be launching by end of this year. 5800x3d is kind of a like a last hurrah for the platform.

 

That thought has definitely crossed my mind. I just worry about all the potential instability and teething issues with a brand new platform. But I do agree. Maybe I just wait and see how the new stuff ends up performing.

[TravelRunner404 596]

 

52 minutes ago, V1ROTA7E said:

Would love to see what kind of perf you'd get using a more complex plane under more realistic scenarios...(taxiing, final approach, etc).

I flew the PMDG DC6 and performance is still noticeably better with 60 FPS VSYNC, but I didn't take stats.  The thing is without being able to truly hit 60 FPS the swings are still there.  It's pretty much an additional 10-15 FPS clearance.  I am sure if I left the 200/200 Ultra settings as is, used my parked planes only settings, I could probably never find a scenario where I am under 30 FPS.  So smooth all the time all over the world with 30 FPS VSYNC.  That's good enough for my 3-5 hours a week of simming.  But with the 5900x that drop below rwasn't really happening either because the clearance was also enough.  The big benefit for me is getting the processor out of the way for VR.  The extra 10-15 FPS is just enough to leave me consistently maxed on GPU, which is usually 35 FPS or so.  But honestly, the 12900k level, the 5900x, etc. should be enough unless someone wants to die on that hill that a fluctuating FPS between 40-55 is better, and in that scenario, the 5800x3D I think will be noticeably better.

[bbsmitz 132]

1 hour ago, TravelRunner404 said:

The world update photogrammetry cities are somehow messing up other cities while on the ground.  Specifically in the US, but the original poster to catch it in the MSFS forums was in Spain I believe.  If you have all the world updates installed and photogrammetry on, go park your plane at KJFK, and you'll notice some dismal performance and a low working GPU while your main thread gets taken back behind the barn.  Turn off photogrammetry and you can go from 27 FPS back up to 40+ FPS.  But it's not the US photogrammetry that is messing things up, it's the world update entries for photogrammetry cities.  There are 7 small content files installed with each world update.  If you uninstall all of those, go back to KJFK, turn ON photogrammetry and like magic you are back at 40+ FPS.  It's literally a 50% increase and you don't have to turn off photogrammetry.  Even weirder is that it's some combination of those 7 installed together that messes everything up.  If you only install Germany, everything is fine.  Or say UK, it's also fine, maybe a 2-3 FPS drop.  Very little difference when only one is installed, but when all 7 are installed the FPS at US airports tanks. 

So it's best to simply uninstall all 7 of them and restart the sim.  If you are going to go flying in France, you can install France's file and fly.  From what I can tell you don't need to restart if you install one.  Then uninstall it and restart the sim if you go back to the US.  You don't need to uninstall the entire 5 GB world update, only that small photogrammetry file.  I think 6 of them are 500kb or so, and Germany is 300mb for some reason.  This was also tested with Rolling Cache OFF.  I don't know what would happen if you have 40 GIG rolling cache, you uninstall those files and go back to KJFK.  If it was cached with those files installed it might not do the trick.  Once it's all uninstalled I am sure you can turn back on the rolling cache.

Here is a photo of what I am talking about in the Content Manager: https://ibb.co/gyP8YbB.

My frames just went from around 25fps to 50-60fps sitting on the ground at JFK, gate E9.  Even panning around in external view gives me >40fps.  5600x (PBO with PPT/TDC/EDC limits increased to 110W/90A/140A), 3090, and 32MB Ram at 3600.  Still getting some fps drop when I look around quickly with track IR, but that difference is astounding.  Like my performance literally doubled.

That is one hell of a bug.

[Mikeingreen 139]

12 hours ago, TravelRunner404 said:

The world update photogrammetry cities are somehow messing up other cities while on the ground.  Specifically in the US, but the original poster to catch it in the MSFS forums was in Spain I believe.  If you have all the world updates installed and photogrammetry on, go park your plane at KJFK, and you'll notice some dismal performance and a low working GPU while your main thread gets taken back behind the barn.  Turn off photogrammetry and you can go from 27 FPS back up to 40+ FPS.  But it's not the US photogrammetry that is messing things up, it's the world update entries for photogrammetry cities.  There are 7 small content files installed with each world update.  If you uninstall all of those, go back to KJFK, turn ON photogrammetry and like magic you are back at 40+ FPS.  It's literally a 50% increase and you don't have to turn off photogrammetry.  Even weirder is that it's some combination of those 7 installed together that messes everything up.  If you only install Germany, everything is fine.  Or say UK, it's also fine, maybe a 2-3 FPS drop.  Very little difference when only one is installed, but when all 7 are installed the FPS at US airports tanks. 

So it's best to simply uninstall all 7 of them and restart the sim.  If you are going to go flying in France, you can install France's file and fly.  From what I can tell you don't need to restart if you install one.  Then uninstall it and restart the sim if you go back to the US.  You don't need to uninstall the entire 5 GB world update, only that small photogrammetry file.  I think 6 of them are 500kb or so, and Germany is 300mb for some reason.  This was also tested with Rolling Cache OFF.  I don't know what would happen if you have 40 GIG rolling cache, you uninstall those files and go back to KJFK.  If it was cached with those files installed it might not do the trick.  Once it's all uninstalled I am sure you can turn back on the rolling cache.

Here is a photo of what I am talking about in the Content Manager: https://ibb.co/gyP8YbB.

I tried to find the 7 files that you talked about but could only find one, labeled Photogrammetry 3D Cities. Deleting that got me 2fps. But turning off Photogrammetry  all together got me to 34-37 fps in the FBW sitting on the runway at KJFK. Other settings were 2560x1440, Terrain LOD@300, everything at Ultra. I wonder why I can't find the 7 files you showed? I have the Premium Deluxe with all the World Updates installed.

One thing I do need to do is go back and retest with the one file I deleted and PG On. I didn't restart the sim after deleting the file before testing. 

Additional info

Just had the AI Pilot do a KJFK to KBOS in the Asobo A320. FPS was at 30 just as he rotated. FPS went up to high 40's and stayed there until dropping as the aircraft got below 500 feet on approach into KBOS. Was at 31 on touchdown and then dropped to around 24 on taxi. This is with PG ON

@TravelRunner404, are you running the new Beta? I am and I wonder if they have fixed the Cities bug, if you are not.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Mikeingreen