There are a lot of people speculating that PMDG will not stick to their "promise" of continually updating the 737 because of whatever RSR calls the initial release and because P3D hasn't been updated. There are at least 2 more products coming after the 737 that we know of, that RSR said will have the same updating schedule. My guess is that they'll want to sell those other 2 products just as much as they did the 737. Do you really think they'd not update the 737 as promised if they have those other 2 products coming out?? If people see that they're not sticking to their word with this initial release and the update schedule, no one will go for the 777 and the 747, because they're effectively rolling out the same way and they know this. 

17 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

Well FBW driven by young passionate folks who love the this hobby and not working for money, which may explain how impressive FBW has become 

Yep, and they're willing to try new things. 

Zibo is another example of a brilliant freeware project.

Having said that, it's not all about freeware.

Fenix strikes me as a dev who is pushing the envelope.

I'm left wondering if PMDG is past it's peak. I willing to be impressed when I fly the MSFS 737, but PMDGs other output over the past 5 years has been lackluster. The last impressive Boeing release was the QOTS III in 2017. 

When their 737 is released to market in the coming weeks, it will obviously be the best modern Boeing in the sim. However, I don't think the 2022 model PMDG is an unbeatable behemoth any more, and if I was a dev I'd be toying with the idea of trying to build a better Boeing for MSFS.

 

5 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Feature wise, it’s a step or two back from what we’ve had for the past few years. That’s 100% expected, because of platform limitations, but it’s still a negative.

But what are those features? The lack of an EFB on release is a hard to swallow pill for me as I fly in VR, but other than that I didn't see anything else missing (disregarding the WX radar). I don't see why people think it would be incomplete, as in missing tons compared to the P3D version, or why some are talking about it as a plane that "flies from A to B" only as if it were some sort of dumbed down version that can't do anything more than get you there in the most basic manner, like it didn't have any sort of advanced simulation.

3 minutes ago, Bdub22 said:

There are a lot of people speculating that PMDG will not stick to their "promise" of continually updating the 737 because of whatever RSR calls the initial release and because P3D hasn't been updated. There are at least 2 more products coming after the 737 that we know of, that RSR said will have the same updating schedule. My guess is that they'll want to sell those other 2 products just as much as they did the 737. Do you really think they'd not update the 737 as promised if they have those other 2 products coming out?? If people see that they're not sticking to their word with this initial release and the update schedule, no one will go for the 777 and the 747, because they're effectively rolling out the same way and they know this. 

They haven't updated the P3D 777 cockpit. They haven't delivered the long-promised LNAV 2.0. They haven't got around to upgrading the DC-6 to X-Plane 11 yet. Maybe that will happen after X-Plane 12 comes out?

PMDG planes are a bit like crack, so people will still buy them. Do people not buy DCS modules by ED just because the last module is still an Early Access, unfinished mess? Answer: many people (like me) still do!

We buy unfinished modules because we hope for the best in the future. Also, because of marketing, which PMDG are the past masters of. 

!RemindMe 6 months. Did PMDG deliver everything they inferred that they would, or did we get a whole bunch more of those PMDG/RSR excuses? 🙂

26 minutes ago, Sunshine13 said:

Just give us the damm plane, and our wallets, and will take it from there.!!!

 

Not quite Shakespear but bang on the buck

16 minutes ago, threegreen said:

But what are those features? The lack of an EFB on release is a hard to swallow pill for me as I fly in VR, but other than that I didn't see anything else missing (disregarding the WX radar). I don't see why people think it would be incomplete, as in missing tons compared to the P3D version, or why some are talking about it as a plane that "flies from A to B" only as if it were some sort of dumbed down version that can't do anything more than get you there in the most basic manner, like it didn't have any sort of advanced simulation.

I only fly in VR too (as you may remember), and have been enjoying the EFB in the FBW despite its tiny size.

I haven't seen anyone here claim that PMDG's new aircraft is "missing tons" compared to the PMDG version. It didn't look like that to me in the streams, as I've said it looked like a decent port of the NGXu with a few minor cosmetic upgrades (and which will no doubt look much better in MSFS due to the superior engine).

It's more that given the overwhelming hype train, some could be excused for expecting something more than we had with 2011's NGX.

Personally, from what I've seen on the streams it's right in the middle of my expectation range.

I'm a little concerned about Chewy's 23 FPS and frame rate instability from a VR point of view. MSFS is turning into a great VR sim, and I hope the PMDG 737 can deliver the virtual reality goods, just like the FBW A320, the DC Designs Concorde or the JustFlight Turbo Arrow do.

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by OzWhitey

29 minutes ago, threegreen said:

But what are those features? The lack of an EFB on release is a hard to swallow pill for me as I fly in VR, but other than that I didn't see anything else missing (disregarding the WX radar). I don't see why people think it would be incomplete, as in missing tons compared to the P3D version, or why some are talking about it as a plane that "flies from A to B" only as if it were some sort of dumbed down version that can't do anything more than get you there in the most basic manner, like it didn't have any sort of advanced simulation.

Exactly... Apart from missing the old EFB, and missing WX radar (MSFS limitation until >=SU10), the MSFS PMDG 737-700 from various accounts is at least at the same level of functionality compared to P3D, and also from various accounts including beta testers (https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/169435-climbing-out-of-ibiza#post169452) and Rob himself (https://youtu.be/6sG5IiTlD3Y?t=1891), the aircraft's flight model and physics is better than the P3D version.

We should all be able to see for ourselves soon, but no amount of wishcasting or misinformation from certain folks (especially those who're disgruntled with PMDG for whatever reasons like them neglecting P3D products, which is tough but the market speaks volumes) is going to suddenly become fact until otherwise shown.

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by lwt1971

5 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

expecting something more than we had with 2011's NGX.

I had that model and it was great, both in FSX and P3D. Just eyeballing the MSFS model CDU pages that control configuration options, loading procedures, etc.,, there already are many more of those in the MSFS model than there were in the older sims. Could folks be more specific about what it is that they want more of in the MSFS 737 model from PMDG given how deep the model seems already?

Many thanks.

6 minutes ago, jrw4 said:

I had that model and it was great, both in FSX and P3D. Just eyeballing the MSFS model CDU pages that control configuration options, loading procedures, etc.,, there already are many more of those in the MSFS model than there were in the older sims. Could folks be more specific about what it is that they want more of in the MSFS 737 model from PMDG given how deep the model seems already?

Many thanks.

I'm not the guy you quoted, and I don't agree with him, but I will play messenger and say he's answered several times that he wants to see innovation. He wants a state of the art EFB, the printer should be able to print METAR's and ATIS. The sim should simulate the real time location and signal strength of all the GPS satellites overhead. The IRS should have all the quirks it would have when aligning at the poles. The failure simulation should be mind-blowing, like the Flight 1 Super-80 for FSX that simulated smoke in the cockpit and cracked windshields.

His point was that PMDG has found a very comfortable and unwavering feature list, year over year, and other freeware devs (FBW, ZIBO) are coming out with amazing new features that PMDG isn't even considering.

Personally I'm fine with that. PMDG doesn't have a responsibility to be the best creative mind in the industry. Their aircraft are spectacular, even when compared with newer and more passionate developers.

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by WestAir
Spelling

2 minutes ago, jrw4 said:

I had that model and it was great, both in FSX and P3D. Just eyeballing the MSFS model CDU pages that control configuration options, loading procedures, etc.,, there already are many more of those in the MSFS model than there were in the older sims. Could folks be more specific about what it is that they want more of in the MSFS 737 model from PMDG given how deep the model seems already?

Many thanks.

Does it have anything the NGXu doesn't have? I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm just interested. I don't care much about what might or might not be added in the future, but I do care deeply about current systems depth, flight model and performance.

As for flight model, the comments linked above are extremely minimalist:

"But what about flight and ground physicis? Was PMDG able to fix native physics and implement its own?"

"Both are quite a way ahead of P3D physics, indeed it taxies a lot nicer than it used to in P3D."

Re: flight model/physics, I'd certainly like to hear some actual detail from someone who has flown the PMDG 737 beta.

25 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

They haven't updated the P3D 777 cockpit. They haven't delivered the long-promised LNAV 2.0. They haven't got around to upgrading the DC-6 to X-Plane 11 yet. Maybe that will happen after X-Plane 12 comes out?

PMDG planes are a bit like crack, so people will still buy them. Do people not buy DCS modules by ED just because the last module is still an Early Access, unfinished mess? Answer: many people (like me) still do!

We buy unfinished modules because we hope for the best in the future. Also, because of marketing, which PMDG are the past masters of. 

!RemindMe 6 months. Did PMDG deliver everything they inferred that they would, or did we get a whole bunch more of those PMDG/RSR excuses? 🙂

Exactly. Those are all on a dead platform. I'm not saying its good business practice, because it's not. But, PMDG is trying something new with early release, or whatever they're calling it. If people see they aren't sticking to those updates, no one is going to buy the 777 and 747 for MSFS and they know this. They know all the money to be made is now in MSFS. I bet they stick to the update timelines instead of pissing people off on the biggest platform. 

1 minute ago, WestAir said:

I'm not the guy you quoted, and I don't agree with him, but I will play messenger and say he's answered several times that he wants to see innovation. He wants a state of the art EFB, the printer should be able to print METAR's and ATIS. The sim should simulate the real time location and signal strength of all the GPS satellites overhead. The IRS should have all the quirks it would have when aligning at the poles. The failure simulation should be mind-blowing, like the Flight 1 Super-80 for FSX that simulated smoke in the cockpit and cracked windshields.

His point was that PMDG has found a very comfortable and unwavering feature list, year over year, and other freeware devs (FBW, ZIBO) are coming out with amazing new features that PMDG isn't even considering.

Personally I'm fine with that. PMDG doesn't have a responsibility to be the best creative mind in the industry.

I think I started this whole conversation replying to straw man arguments from another poster about 6 pages back. 

I think you have outdone him, sir. There is really not a lot of point responding to that.

Having read your post and reflected, I'm afraid I have to say: I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

14 minutes ago, Bdub22 said:

Exactly. Those are all on a dead platform. I'm not saying its good business practice, because it's not. But, PMDG is trying something new with early release, or whatever they're calling it. If people see they aren't sticking to those updates, no one is going to buy the 777 and 747 for MSFS and they know this. They know all the money to be made is now in MSFS. I bet they stick to the update timelines instead of pissing people off on the biggest platform. 

PMDG is trying re-badged Early Access because their product is coming to the market a great deal later than people in 2020 expected, and because there are now a number of other "study level" airliners on the horizon.

The company is not exactly known for sticking to inferred timelines, but maybe they've turned over a new leaf (I'll bet you a dollar they haven't).

On a related note, a large number of people seem to get very defensive when PMDG products are not excessively praised, as is expected over on their own forums. I thus find myself in the odd position in this thread of appearing to be a PMDG detractor, whereas I've usually been accused on Avsim over the years of being a PMDG shill. 🙂

 

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by OzWhitey

1 hour ago, omarsmak30 said:

Well FBW driven by young passionate folks who love the this hobby and not working for money, which may explain how impressive FBW has become 

I stopped flying for more than a month, then tonight I finally had some time to do a quick one with the latest exp version of the FBW.

Texture and lightning seem to have been worked on a lot, it's crazy sharp, yet still have the wear and tear to add an extra level of realism. From what I am seeing, it could be above PMDG and close to FENIX

Also, we have an improved LNAV and VNAV, not issue free yet, but it's here and it work well enough.

Sounds, EFB are top notch, and when you see for exemple what they want to do with the weather radar when they will get raw weather data from MSFS, if Asobo fully open the read pipe, it will be a game changer.  

37 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

 

On a related note, a large number of people seem to get very defensive when PMDG products are not excessively praised, as is expected over on their own forums. I thus find myself in the odd position in this thread of appearing to be a PMDG detractor, whereas I've usually been accused on Avsim over the years of being a PMDG shill. 🙂

 

Yeah no kidding. The state of the world these days. Everything has to be binary these days it seems. I’ve also been accused of hating on msfs just for pointing out things I hope they fix. Weird times.