Can't say I'm a big fan of this approach. I understand, or I think I do understand what PMDG is doing here. As they word it, it doesn't seem as bad as early access, but it still not sitting right with me. I don't like to be paying in advance for something. Also, giving them what could be compared to an interest free loan, should come at a reduced price for the customer.

I'm still looking forward to this, though. And I don't think PMDG will screw it up.

6 minutes ago, jcjimmy said:

I wonder if the "Early Adopter" program with reduced features (and expectations) ...

Incorrect, it's not releasing with "reduced features".. please take the time to actually read what PMDG says. It is releasing at least at a functionally equivalent level to its P3D counterpart minus the old EFB. *New* features, that's never been provided for their 737 before (i.e. more detailed cabin modelling, new LNAV, new EFB, etc) will be continuously released for free over the course of the next 2-3 months, approx every two weeks.

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by lwt1971

5 minutes ago, wiler said:

Im more hyped about the MD80 , no hype no  lengthy wordy gimmicky posts from the ceo, just a few preview vids on youtube w unknown channels so far, lol. The plane does look amazing though and cant wait for it to drop.  PMDG is always full of hype and drama. 

I think that's exactly why there's a bit of negativity around this release. The patented PMDG marketing techniques have finally worn some of us out with the incessant hype. 

We've been getting the dramatic press releases for two years now, and I think PMDG's approach is getting old. I also think they're not innovating much any more.

I do find my enthusiasm is a little dampened by Randazzo's attitude. I bought the DC-6 for MSFS, it's not bad, but I thought I'd go online and see if there was some way to hide the EFB tablet like I can do in most of my other recent purchases. I find a thread where someone asked this exact question, and got ripped to shreds just for asking.

Once other posters had shot the idea down, Mr Randazzo came along with this take:

"I've been flying airplanes with tablets for a decade, including the DC-3. And this whole time I didn't realize that tablet was ruining my immersion? I wish I had known that- I'd have had a ready made excuse for a few bad landings. "The tablet ruined my immersion on short final!" 

We actually modeled the tablet mount in the DC-6 after the one I have in the DC-3. It is convenient because you can put it in view when you need it, and then fold it out of the way quickly when you don't. I have a similar configuration in the jets that I fly. It is quite convenient and helpful. Since you have declared them to be otherwise, I'll have to talk to maintenance to see if we can get it removed and have the paperwork reversed since it is apparently isn't "realistic" to have one, I guess? Gosh and all this time I thought was improving my flying. 

The tablet in the DC-6 is not optional, nor will it be made optional."

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-dc-6-cloudmaster-forum/135159-can-we-have-in-the-future-an-option-to-remove-the-tablet

Honestly, the CEO's response in that thread to a customer request is one of the most childish things I've seen from a supposedly serious company.

It's not like the OP was asking for something radical. The planes I've bought recently - the Cessna 414, the Carenado Seneca - manage to have a click spot to achieve this function. 

But someone asks PMDG for this, and it's considered heresy.

I kind of gave up flying the DC-6 after reading that thread.

Rudeness to the customer aside, I think that exchange shows that PMDG doesn't pay much attention to what's happening elsewhere. Randazzo doesn't understand how this works - you can still have the necessary functions domiciled in the table, it doesn't cease to exist just because you click on the 'hide' spot!

<rant over> <probably>

Someone asks above what were we expecting from this 737 - well, maybe something new and original? Just because we've seen the 737 before, it doesn't mean there can't be innovation. Other devs can manage it.

I'm also a little perturbed by PMDG's pace of development. Where's the new 777 cockpit? People paid a lot of money for the last 777 expansion thinking that it was just around the corner. Of course, you also have to be very careful to read exactly what PMDG says, not what they infer with their always-positive marketing.

My take is not entirely negative. I've been refreshing the browser waiting to see the videos of the MSFS 737 just as often as some of you have. I'm going to buy it on release day, and it will be my 4th PMDG 737.

I'm just not impressed with the streaming that I've seen so far (and that's not including the Fabio Flop). I remember RSR was going on about how good the fire handles look - sure, they're shinier than the ones in the NGX and the NGXu. What else is new? What's improved? Not LNAV, we're still waiting on that. No terrain radar, or weather radar. It doesn't look like performance is spectacular. What "code improvements" are still needed.

Too much hype, and a few in this thread who seem affronted that anyone could dare to criticise this aircraft.

I still really like PMDG planes, but I'm not really part of the cult any more. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, bendead said:

That's the worry part for me, it was promised a long time ago on P3D and still not delivered. I hope the gear bay and the cabin will not be the priority.

If the BAE146, is living up to expectation, included a really well done FMS, then I can wait a couple of month of improvement before buying the 737.

If I were considering buying the 737, I would wait until it is "finished", rather than "partially completed". 

4 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

I think that's exactly why there's a bit of negativity around this release. The patented PMDG marketing techniques have finally worn some of us out with the incessant hype. 

We've been getting the dramatic press releases for two years now, and I think PMDG's approach is getting old. I also think they're not innovating much any more.

I do find my enthusiasm is a little dampened by Randazzo's attitude. I bought the DC-6 for MSFS, it's not bad, but I thought I'd go online and see if there was some way to hide the EFB tablet like I can do in most of my other recent purchases. I find a thread where someone asked this exact question, and got ripped to shreds just for asking.

Once other posters had shot the idea down, Mr Randazzo came along with this take:

"I've been flying airplanes with tablets for a decade, including the DC-3. And this whole time I didn't realize that tablet was ruining my immersion? I wish I had known that- I'd have had a ready made excuse for a few bad landings. "The tablet ruined my immersion on short final!" 

We actually modeled the tablet mount in the DC-6 after the one I have in the DC-3. It is convenient because you can put it in view when you need it, and then fold it out of the way quickly when you don't. I have a similar configuration in the jets that I fly. It is quite convenient and helpful. Since you have declared them to be otherwise, I'll have to talk to maintenance to see if we can get it removed and have the paperwork reversed since it is apparently isn't "realistic" to have one, I guess? Gosh and all this time I thought was improving my flying. 

The tablet in the DC-6 is not optional, nor will it be made optional."

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-dc-6-cloudmaster-forum/135159-can-we-have-in-the-future-an-option-to-remove-the-tablet

Honestly, the CEO's response in that thread to a customer request is one of the most childish things I've seen from a supposedly serious company.

It's not like the OP was asking for something radical. The planes I've bought recently - the Cessna 414, the Carenado Seneca - manage to have a click spot to achieve this function. 

But someone asks PMDG for this, and it's considered heresy.

I kind of gave up flying the DC-6 after reading that thread.

Rudeness to the customer aside, I think that exchange shows that PMDG doesn't pay much attention to what's happening elsewhere. Randazzo doesn't understand how this works - you can still have the necessary functions domiciled in the table, it doesn't cease to exist just because you click on the 'hide' spot!

<rant over> <probably>

Someone asks above what were we expecting from this 737 - well, maybe something new and original? Just because we've seen the 737 before, it doesn't mean there can't be innovation. Other devs can manage it.

I'm also a little perturbed by PMDG's pace of development. Where's the new 777 cockpit? People paid a lot of money for the last 777 expansion thinking that it was just around the corner. Of course, you also have to be very careful to read exactly what PMDG says, not what they infer with their always-positive marketing.

My take is not entirely negative. I've been refreshing the browser waiting to see the videos of the MSFS 737 just as often as some of you have. I'm going to buy it on release day, and it will be my 4th PMDG 737.

I'm just not impressed with the streaming that I've seen so far (and that's not including the Fabio Flop). I remember RSR was going on about how good the fire handles look - sure, they're shinier than the ones in the NGX and the NGXu. What else is new? What's improved? Not LNAV, we're still waiting on that. No terrain radar, or weather radar. It doesn't look like performance is spectacular. What "code improvements" are still needed.

Too much hype, and a few in this thread who seem affronted that anyone could dare to criticise this aircraft.

I still really like PMDG planes, but I'm not really part of the cult any more. 

 

 

 

 

I was never a massive PMDG fan, theyve been doing this for years, what they may realize but dont show it is they are not the ONLY circus in town anymore, those old FS/p3d days are gone when they used to be the best. I dont understand why they need to pull the diehards on a carrot and string when clearly hes gonna make bank on the noobs joining who dont have a clue how to fly the 737 /dont want study level/ just wanna cruise around like GTA. Fair play to those people , but dont play the game w the diehards who have been in this game since 20-25 years 

1 hour ago, tpete61 said:

You people are all funny....None of this stuff is "Study Level".

 

 

I think you're getting a bit over-hyped yourself about the word study level.  It's nothing to do with real Level D sims or FTDs even - it's a word created by flight simmers which simply means you need to read the manual to operate it.

17 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Not LNAV, we're still waiting on that. No terrain radar,

Terrain “radar” (actually EGPWS terrain display - it is not any kind of “radar”) works already. Both Fabio and Chewy used it on their streams. It was definitely working in Fabio’s approach into Rio last night.

8 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

I think you're getting a bit over-hyped yourself about the word study level.  It's nothing to do with real Level D sims or FTDs even - it's a word created by flight simmers which simply means you need to read the manual to operate it.

Right!? Not to mention the irony of Pete's statement. RSR literally created the term 'study level' as a catch phrase for his products. If anyone gets to decide what "study level" is or isn't, it's the man who actually made the phrase to begin with.

14 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

you need to read the manual

Absolutely. When you find yourself in the cold and dark cockpit - you'll quickly realize that I bit of studying is required. But hey - that's part of the fun, right?

(not directed at @ryanbatc but the post he commented on) 

35 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Someone asks above what were we expecting from this 737 - well, maybe something new and original? Just because we've seen the 737 before, it doesn't mean there can't be innovation. Other devs can manage it.

To be quite fair, those of us who've never cared to use P3D, seeing PMDG's 737 in MSFS with functionality equal or better in the first release (yes minus the old EFB, but with never-seen-before features yet to come for free), and much better visuals... well, that is definitely something new and original to us 🙂

1 hour ago, jcjimmy said:

I wonder if the "Early Adopter" program with reduced features (and expectations) will result in a bit of a price reduction upon release? I am looking forward to the release of the PMDG B737 to MSFS and hope it operates well and does bring us a high level of stability, performance and realism.

How about reading the actual message from RSR? He gives you all the answers to that.

 

1 hour ago, jcjimmy said:

I wonder if the "Early Adopter" program with reduced features (and expectations) will result in a bit of a price reduction upon release?

7 hours ago, bendead said:

Being Careful With Terminology:

"Early Access" periods also tend to be offered at steep discounts, reflecting the incomplete nature of the product. That is also not the case here- and I want to be very clear about that...

...I want to be careful here that nobody confuses this discussion with "Early Access." Early Access generally is given to products that are not feature complete, or still considered to be early enough in development that users usually expect some level of limitation and inconvenience when attempting to use them. We don't anticipate that being the case with the 737, as it is already fully featured and suited to accomplish it's main goals well and with polish

🤦

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by ckyliu

57 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

'm just not impressed with the streaming that I've seen so far (and that's not including the Fabio Flop). I remember RSR was going on about how good the fire handles look - sure, they're shinier than the ones in the NGX and the NGXu. What else is new? What's improved? Not LNAV, we're still waiting on that. No terrain radar, or weather radar. It doesn't look like performance is spectacular. What "code improvements" are still needed.

I understand you are judging this from a P3D-customer-perspective and are (justifiably so) disappointed by the lack of progress. But they were very clear that this is firstly all about getting this into MSFS in the first place, and updates only later. Sure, it's possible they don't deliver afterwards, so you can wait and see if you want to be on the safe side.
What I don't understand and what makes you sound badly informed, is the part about weather radar. Do you really not know whose fault that is?

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by Fiorentoni

1 hour ago, wiler said:

Im more hyped about the MD80 , no hype no  lengthy wordy gimmicky posts from the ceo, just a few preview vids on youtube w unknown channels so far, lol. The plane does look amazing though and cant wait for it to drop.  PMDG is always full of hype and drama. 

Completely different team, different Dev style, etc.

I have the rare opportunity to be hyped about both!  My only issue with the MD is that nobody has taught me how to properly fly her! LOL.

But I can tell you as a beta tester, when I managed to setup an ILS approach into KATL on a nasty weather day, she tracked the needles like a blood hound on the scent. 🙂 

This is what I saw when I finally broke out...

And here she is safely parked at the T gates (Still tweaking this paint for MSFS, but should have her ready by release)

I'd just ignore the hype if it's an issue, and don't let it sway you from the awesome product that will be the end result of it all. 😉 

I've been a simmer since the beginning, and I can say without a doubt this is the best time to be a simmer!

You've got airliner's coming online shortly, and more great GA planes to shake a stick at!   You even have historically airliner-only simmers/painters dabbling into the GA world and giving you guys cool little planes painted like this:

Yeah....the actual issue I have with all of this is that there are not enough hours in the day to beta-test, paint, and enjoy this wonderful sim as a simmer. 😞

2 hours ago, tpete61 said:

You people are all funny....None of this stuff is "Study Level".

All of these products and add-ons are basically entertainment level type stuff.

Most of us don't need to study anything to play MSFS2020!!!!

This PMDG737 is so over-hyped it's crazy. It's gonna be fun to watch people's disappointment when it proves to be less than all the hype has you believing!

 

Why do you feel the need to say this?