The landing bug was traced back to Fabio's controller assignments and not an issue with the the aircraft.

Personally i would not have used the term Early Adopter but rather Release Phase or something like that so it does not get confused with Early Access...even though RSR mentions the distinction in his post people will confuse it.

22 minutes ago, MarkW said:

The landing bug was traced back to Fabio's controller assignments and not an issue with the the aircraft.

Personally i would not have used the term Early Adopter but rather Release Phase or something like that so it does not get confused with Early Access...even though RSR mentions the distinction in his post people will confuse it.

I don't think PMDG officially said it was Fabio's controller assignments yet?  PMDG said other beta testers also "cartwheeled" on their landings, similar to what Fabio experienced.  They traced those other beta tester's issues to being an issue with the controller assignment.

But I haven't seen PMDG say they know exactly what caused Fabio's cartwheel, only that Fabio's cartwheel looked similar to the issue other beta testers experienced. From what I last read from Randazzo, PMDG are still tracing the issue that happened to Fabio yesterday and they still don't know the exact reason yet.  Do you have the exact link and quote where PMDG has already traced Fabio's cartwheel and they are sure they know why it happened?

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I don't think PMDG officially said it was Fabio's controller assignments yet?  PMDG said other beta testers also "cartwheeled" on their landings, similar to what Fabio experienced.  They traced those other beta tester's issues to being an issue with the controller assignment.

But I haven't seen PMDG say they know exactly what caused Fabio's cartwheel, only that Fabio's cartwheel looked similar to the issue other beta testers experienced. From what I last read from Randazzo, PMDG are still tracing the issue that happened to Fabio yesterday and they still don't know the exact reason yet.  Do you have the exact link and quote where PMDG has already traced Fabio's cartwheel and they are sure they know why it happened?

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/169846-19apr22-pmdg-737-development-update-let-s-talk-about-early-adopter-and-continued-maintenance-phases?p=169887#post169887

2 hours ago, bendead said:

Integration of new PMDG LNAV 2.0 lateral control model (requires C++ debugging capability in the SDK/platform)

That's the worry part for me, it was promised a long time ago on P3D and still not delivered. I hope the gear bay and the cabin will not be the priority.

If the BAE146, is living up to expectation, included a really well done FMS, then I can wait a couple of month of improvement before buying the 737.

11 minutes ago, rutra said:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/169846-19apr22-pmdg-737-development-update-let-s-talk-about-early-adopter-and-continued-maintenance-phases?p=169887#post169887

So the quote from cmarkis is this:

Quote

This particular behavior have been seen only from one Beta tester, and was traced to the fact that one of his controllers, he is using multiple ones, had reverted all assignments to the default ones.

As soon as he removed the default assignments from the extra controller issue was gone. Another user reported here in the forum that had the same experience with other 3rd party planes. Currently this is investigated and trying to pinpoint why this happens with the extra controller. We have asked Asobo input as well

Notice cmarkis is referring to another beta tester in his wording.  At no time did cmarkis say PMDG was able to get Fabio to reproduce the bug, and that they have pinpointed the exact issue on Fabio's setup.

And this is what Randazzo said:

Quote

Wojtek- Hey- thanks for saying that. One of our betas had it happen repeatedly and it was eventually traced to the platform sneakily re-introducing default control assignments into his customized control setup- or so he believes as of this writing. We have never been able to make it happen in-house in spite of trying and in the other 65 days of testing nobody has seen this happen. If you happen to recall where it happened to you, that would be useful information. We are collecting data on it, because we want to prove it IS our airplane just as much as we want to prove that it ISN'T. One of those answers has to be proven. - RSR

So I don't think PMDG are sure they know what exactly happened in Fabio's situation.  They are saying what Fabio experienced is similar to other beta testers, but it could be something else that caused Fabio's cartwheel (ie. an invisible bump on the runway because of a 3rd party scenery add on that is not compatible with SU8).

I would rather wait for PMDG to say they know exactly what happened in Fabio's situation and they are able to get Fabio to reproduce it as well.  Until they say that Fabio is able to reproduce it, and they have worked with Fabio to pinpoint the bug, I think what Randazzo said about they are still "collecting data on it" and "prove it IS our airplane just as much as we want to prove that it ISN'T" applies.

TLDR: PMDG doesn't know exactly what caused Fabio's cartwheel and are investigating it at the moment.

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

“This particular behavior have been seen only from one Beta tester, and was traced to the fact that one of his controllers, he is using multiple ones, had reverted all assignments to the default ones.”

Well that doesn’t really confirm that Fabio’s issue was controller-related does it. Anyway it’s reassuring that the devs are looking into it and discussing it on their forum.

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

At no time did cmarkis say PMDG was able to get Fabio to reproduce the bug, and that they have pinpointed the exact issue on Fabio's setup.

Exactly.

I hope they add access to camera sdk to their list. In P3d pmdg had their own custom camera shake on touchdown. If pmdg can convince asobo to handover camera sdk it will pave the way for many smart addons like fsrealistic and chase plane who can do wonders with camera system. 

46 minutes ago, MarkW said:

Personally i would not have used the term Early Adopter but rather Release Phase or something like that so it does not get confused with Early Access...even though RSR mentions the distinction in his post people will confuse it.

Mostly because the distinction is kind of non-existent. Early adopter and early access customers are essentially the same thing, and in the same post where he claims the product is feature complete, he also claims he wants to add these features, like Kickstarter 'stretch goals'. With a 'release date' of 24 weeks after initial early access release. No guarantee of them being delivered as they can not force Asobo to do something, but being dangled in front of you to get you to purchase already. And by buying the product you are inevitably funding the further development, again like early access.

Call a duck by any other name, it's still going to be a duck.

Not hating on PMDG, they usually make great products and I'm sure they'll get it done. But just call it what it is and stop with announcements about announcements and then an announcement about the announcement being delayed, and now an announcement about the product pretty much releasing as early access first... 

2 hours ago, omarsmak30 said:

It is reaching that level. 

It definitely is...  I couldn't manage to get it started last night even with the generous people who wrote on my overhead panel screenshot LOL

On 4/18/2022 at 12:16 AM, Sunshine13 said:

how much hype do we have to hear over the weekend ?  I need a break from all this marketing hype.

Just get the dam product out and u have our wallets.

Like Sunshine above succinctly put it (unfortunately in the wrong thread). 

I guess with all the hype, updates and announcements, it can start to become a tad overwhelming, to the point of being oversaturated with PMDG/RSR related info. 

1 hour ago, MarkW said:

The landing bug was traced back to Fabio's controller assignments and not an issue with the the aircraft.

Personally i would not have used the term Early Adopter but rather Release Phase or something like that so it does not get confused with Early Access...even though RSR mentions the distinction in his post people will confuse it.

Sounds like marketing spin after a rather embarrassing livestream.

What controller assignment makes your plane spin like a crazy top as the ground effect kicks in???

Presumably an experienced aviation streamer like Fabio knows how to set up basic controls. 

And (sort of) blaming it on multiple controllers, one of which "reverted to default settings'? I have five controllers plugged in when I fly. I've never seen this sort of behaviour when flying or landing with default or addon planes in hundreds of flights in MSFS.

If it was a fundamental sim issue with multiple controllers I suspect we'd be seeing dozens of threads here talking about it.

I just watched sections of Chewy's stream. Plane looks fine. Low FPS - 23 - on the takeoff roll at Fly Tampa KLAS. I didn't see anything much there that would really excite me - looks like the NGXu with a few less features. MSFS itself looks good, of course, and the cockpit probably looks a bit better than it does in P3D, just not markedly so.

I'll buy it on release because I want a decent Boeing in the sim, but I'm honestly more excited by the innovations I see from the (free) FBW A320 compared to anything that PMDG demonstrated so far.  

 

About last Fabio`s landing

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeterminedDiligentPelicanFutureMan-sCkpSXtwo3NvkO-2

5 minutes ago, rutra said:

About last Fabio`s landing

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeterminedDiligentPelicanFutureMan-sCkpSXtwo3NvkO-2

The NTSB has been called. The black box was recovered and we will soon know if it was a controller issue, or bad scenery.  Maybe he was drunk.

I've been involved in many beta programs over the years, and when we get the "NDA is lifted" from the dev, there are many emotions that the beta team goes through.

• The 1st is relief.  Relief that we can finally see a light at the end of a long tunnel.  For those who've never been in a highly structured, tightly controlled beta (the MSFS open beta for anyone to join by clicking a few "I agree" buttons doesn't count, hehe), you can't appreciate the amount of work that goes into the project.  With MSFS, and its newness to all of us, this was doubly experienced as some bugs left us guessing (ie...testing even more) if it was our product or the sim causing the issue?
    We are seeing this on what I want to coin "the Fabio Flop" (hope it goes viral, hehe).  We'll get to that emotion that moment (you can guess what it was though). 
  But regardless...this project was a ton of work, and the entire beta team took the task to heart (as we should), knowing that this little 737 has been in the sites of a majority of our community for some time.   As Rob mentioned...we are all exhausted (but the work is certainly not done yet....just a small breather while we release the beast to the hungry simming world's trumpeters.)
• Next emotion is fear.  The Fabio Flop....need I say more?   But in addition, we know that no matter what we do, no matter how much we worked to squash as many bugs as possible, things like this do happen.  In addition, some in our community are quick to garb their pitchforks and hit the airwaves spouting how horrible this much-anticipated release is and how the Dev has duped us all and strung us along for so long...and for what? 
  I'd like to thank all our level-headed simmers who not only employed common sense when evaluating this tragic event, but also came to the airwaves to quell those holding pitchforks and implore them to look at the situation rationally vs being convinced this release will be bug-ridden and not even worth following any longer.
• Finally there is excitement.  I mention this emotion last, because as much as we all want to be blindly excited about something we've worked so hard to bring to you in her best Sunday dress, there is only one sure-fire way to do this (that the simmimng community would never accept)...which is to hold the release until ALL the bugs are squashed. 
  This is a fine line all Devs struggle with when its decision time.  Have we stomped out enough bugs? enough properly classified bugs? (there is a whole subject on that in the beta test world), to release her to the public, or do we hold her in her cage until bug X,Y,Z are 100% eliminated?  Hopefully in a few weeks you'll see the outcome of that decision for this product. 😉
  So we always hold real excitement back until we can hang our hard hats on the hook at the end of the day (of release), say to ourselves that we did our job to the best of our ability to give the community a product they will enjoy....and finally get to revert back to being simmers...creating a leisurely flight from point A to point B without scrutinizing every click, every hiccup, every 1 frame stutter, every slow window, and subconsciously thinking ahead of all the paperwork that is ahead of you for being observant, LOL! (bug report, screenshots, display settings, controller settings, SU 8,9,10? Did it do it in the last release? Is the route, the weather, the time of day something to note in the report? Is the livery causing the issue?  Can you replicate it reliably?...if so list the exact steps and settings?....Are there current issues with the Azure data connection? DX11or12? Are you testing in the next MSFS open beta release?...Are other beta testers in the air currently reporting it...I could go on, but that is just a light list of things you think of when beta testing)
  
  Those seeking to join a beta team just to get a sneak peak at the new toy, and have no real intentions of actually testing and making the product better, need not apply here. 😉 

I will admit that its a thrill to be a beta tester and get that sneak peak of a great product, that as a simmer I would have purchased if that one awesome perk of being a beta tester is that you typically don't have to wasn't true. But that is certainly not the reason I'm committing to being a tester, its just a perk of the role, hehe.  The NDA you typically sign, covertly (and sometimes overtly) states that you are doing this to help us (the Dev) and not to have a new toy that nobody else at the playground has. 🙂  I signed my name to that NDA, and like to think I (and all the other testers on our team) followed through on the commitment.

Ok..."the wall of text is over". 🙂 
As a painter, let me end this with a shot of a nice livery I've completed you'll be flyinig on day one of the release:

LOL...if I only had to paint this bird vs testing it...I'd have logged many more hours of sleep by now. 🙂 

 

  

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by Steve Dra
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