11 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

"Meanwhile even x-plane 11 is better at all of the above excluding orthos (that can be done for free yeah?), x-plane 12 will be even more better at those, will it still be inferior product if so?  And will even have native seasons and better trees."

Is the quote above promotional or not? 

 

imo, x-plane 11 is better at flight model, avionics and SDK. If x-plane 12 will be even better (logic) hence...? So no, not promotional. But saying that the *unreleased* xp12 is already inferior seems like someone is really worried about his own interest. My opinion, you can ignore it. If you don't want to see the name x-plane here, maybe revert to @abrams_tank first rather than attacking me.

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by mtaxp

3 minutes ago, tweekz said:

You're the guy who promised XP12 to be released in 2021, but at least  before the PMDG 737, right? Gonna enter all-in childish mode now: Nanana, told ya so! 😛

 

I never *promised* anything, quote my exact promise or apologize.

I see the always-defensive XP fans are out and about monitoring MSFS forums, as always :) So ya sorry MSFS's default aircraft/avionics can't be used to bash the sim any more... with all the high fidelity aircrafts and avionics realized for MSFS now, along with the world/weather/lighting/etc simulation that's leagues ahead of anything else, along with the very capable aerodynamics and core flight model engine + new innovations like CFD and softbody physics, MSFS really is the you-can-have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too sim now :)

For those who love to keep harping that XP is better in flight-model/aerodynamics sorry that ain't the case no more, and I'm gonna bet MSFS keeps speeding ahead there.. as for avionics, MSFS is actually better even in the core/default product level with the likes of the WT G1000 Nxi, etc.. start factoring in all the deep avionics in the 3rd party aircraft already out, and yet to come like the the Fenix A320, then that XP fans' talking point get even more stale. For me, XP12 seems to be about as compelling as watching paint dry, but I can see how it'd be a non-trivial step forward for XP11-only tribalists  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by lwt1971

I think MSFS looks wonderful, in fact unbeatable, when it's working, and that most definitely IS the most important thing for me. Much more so than flight models and all that stuff. But it does have issues with consistency, both in terms of how it runs on any one session and more importantly from release to release.

I also like XP, lots of stuff about it I really rate as way above MSFS even visually (the road and rail environment in particular) and with the right addons it can almost equal MSFS for looks. If I run XP with all my LA scenery in place it easily equals MSFS in that location. Plus it has plenty of aircraft I like and most importantly, it doesn't bite me with anything like the frequency of MSFS. If you get a stable release there you can stick with it. So I'm actually looking forward to XP12 to see what it brings. But I don't see it taking over from MSFS for me, even if MSFS stays degraded for me for a while yet.

I even still have the occasional flight in P3D (5.2 or whatever the latest version is) and that looks ok in a lot of ways now.

But I'm with the OP on this, MSFS is as real as it gets visually. In fact I prefer it! (it's a lot easier to get to these places in my man-cave than in the real world)

Just now, mtaxp said:

I never *promised* anything, quote my exact promise or apologize.

Rather OT, but: Around winter 2020 I said that XP12 was still out for at least a year, probably more. Then you turned that argument down and said they're about to present something big at around Xmas 20.

6 minutes ago, tweekz said:

Rather OT, but: Around winter 2020 I said that XP12 was still out for at least a year, probably more. Then you turned that argument down and said they're about to present something big at around Xmas 20.

You said I promised. Quote the promise, I dare you. If I was wrong about my own speculation this makes me one out of many in avsim forums.

Besides, I remember what I said, and it was regarding footage and announcmenent, I was wrong for 6 months. But I never promised anything to anyone as evertything I write is my own opinion. so I ask again, either prove it or apologize.

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by mtaxp

4 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I see the always-defensive XP fans are out and about monitoring MSFS forums, as always 🙂 So ya sorry MSFS's default aircraft/avionics can't be used to bash the sim any more... with all the high fidelity aircrafts and avionics realized for MSFS now, along with the world/weather/lighting/etc simulation that's leagues ahead of anything else, along with the very capable aerodynamics and core flight model engine + new innovations like CFD and softbody physics, MSFS really is the you-can-have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too sim now 🙂 ... For me, XP12 seems to be about as compelling as watching paint dry, but I can see how it'd be a non-trivial step forward for XP11-only tribalists  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So then why me, only 1 user with a different opinion, is now provoked by multiple users? You guys are the defensive, not me!

The real life shots definitely need some work compared to MSFS, but this is a 4.5 billion year project, so I can wait...

9 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

You said I promised. Quote the promise, I dare you. If I was wrong about my own speculation this makes me one out of many in avsim forums.

Besides, I remember what I said, and it was regarding footage and announcmenent, I was wrong for 6 months. But I never promised anything to anyone an evertything I write is my own opinion. so I ask again, either prove it or apologize.

I said I don't expect it to be released any time soon. Then you replied something about a "major news". What sense does a major news make in relation to my statement?

  

On 9/23/2020 at 11:55 PM, tweekz said:

I don't expect XP12 within the next two years.

 

On 9/24/2020 at 12:03 AM, mtaxp said:

I expect to see x-plane 12 news before the end of this year, maybe a bet? Austin already said he is looking at demo tech of the new version and revealed some nice stuff, this is called teasing for a soon major news IMO.

 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by tweekz

9 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

So then why me, only 1 user with a different opinion, is now provoked by multiple users? You guys are the defensive, not me!

Well I'm just stating facts about MSFS, on an MSFS forum, along with my opinion of XP11/12 given that the topic got raised.  Perhaps I'm unfairly grouping you in with some other well-known XP shills who really are ultra defensive that have colored my opinion of XP users, for that I apologize. But if you expect to come on here and start throwing around standard XP-fan talking points re: MSFS flight model and avionics, then be prepared to be responded to :)

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by lwt1971

4 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

The real life shots definitely need some work compared to MSFS, but this is a 4.5 billion year project, so I can wait...

I think that's coming in World Update 450,647,901.

2 minutes ago, tweekz said:

I said I don't expect it to be released any time soon. Then you replied something about a "major announcement". What sense does a major announcement make in relation to my statement?

  

 

 

I said "news" about x-plane 12, that came 6 months later (fscon keynote)

But I fail to see where "I promised", are you going to provoke me for not predicting the future and how is it relevant to my credibility as a normal avsim user?

Just now, mtaxp said:

I said "news" about x-plane 12, that came 6 months later (fscon keynote)

But I fail to see where "I promised", are you going to provoke me for not predicting the future and how is it relevant to my credibility as a normal avsim user?

So what was that major news in reference to my statement?

https://www.avsim.com/forums/forum/335-the-x-plane-general-discussions-forum/

6 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Well I'm just stating facts about MSFS, on an MSFS forum, along with my opinion of XP11/12 given that the topic got raised.  Perhaps I'm unfairly grouping you in with some other well-known XP shills who really are ultra defensive that have colored my opinion of XP users, for that I apologize. But if you expect to come on here and start throwing around standard XP-fan talking points re: MSFS flight model and avionics, then be prepared to be responded to 🙂

So I expressed my own opinion about available products. How does it compare to comparing to an *unreleased* product other than trying to provoke another debate like @abrams_tank is always doing? He mentions x-plane 12 in here more than anyone else!!! Why he is fine but i'm not?! 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by mtaxp