FSHud - Air Traffic Control MSFS Beta

[rob0203 697]

18 hours ago, ricka47 said:

For now, it can't get weather from the sim. The next update may allow third party apps to read weather data.

But even with or without reading weather, it seems weird to giving landing clearance on the opposite runway when you are a air traffic controller.

[alpha117 73]

It looks like the 'reading of weather data', which is coming in the next MSFS upate is for 3rd party weather radar only, so finally aircrafts will have an 'live' weather on their radars.

Other 3rd party programs currently short term and I think also long term the only way to get 'live' weather(Metar and TAF) is via NOAA(which a lot of programs use....as its 'real')  or by using the API from REX Weather Force.  Will Active Sky ever become 'live' weather for MSFS, good question BUT unless MSFS fully open their weather to 3rd parties then we are where we are I'm afraid.

No Active Sky, no OPUS and No FS Global Real Weather; but you never know by the end of the MSFS 10 year devolpment cycle they might and I mean 'might'  allow access to their weather.

Only time will tell

[Julius Saint 1]

In my opinion, we can forget about a dream ATC. Asobo/Microsoft's move was to "partner" with Vatsim. In other words: "Let's not worry about ATC, if you want a real experience fly on Vatsmin. So they didn't worry about API for AI, ATC or anything else related. I'm a developer and I believe the MSFS default ATC there won't be much improvement. I also think the community should invest in an IVAO-type ATC, but with on-screen choices and a virtual ATC. That way we'd fly anywhere in the world with the community and with full control. I don't fly IVAO/ Vatsim for years because many ATC positions are missing. I believe in the power of community. (Sorry for my English)

[ricka47 612]

9 minutes ago, Julius Saint said:

In my opinion, we can forget about a dream ATC. Asobo/Microsoft's move was to "partner" with Vatsim. In other words: "Let's not worry about ATC, if you want a real experience fly on Vatsmin. So they didn't worry about API for AI, ATC or anything else related. I'm a developer and I believe the MSFS default ATC there won't be much improvement. I also think the community should invest in an IVAO-type ATC, but with on-screen choices and a virtual ATC. That way we'd fly anywhere in the world with the community and with full control. I don't fly IVAO/ Vatsim for years because many ATC positions are missing. I believe in the power of community. (Sorry for my English)

While I am a member of VATSIM, I have not made use of it for the same reasons as you. I've tried FSHud and returned it as it did not provide any benefits over default ATC and actually took a few things away such as marshaling and moving jetways. Yet, I think that a "non-live" version is viable and I would hope that FSHud develops further,

I would also hope that you may be wrong that Asobo will not improve default ATC any further. They have done a few things and I hope that they continue to make improvements. Bottom-line, the default ATC isn't awful and I use it for every flight. But some improvements would be so appreciated!

[tup61 1,619]

11 minutes ago, Julius Saint said:

In my opinion, we can forget about a dream ATC.

Agreed. Fact is that even though imho ProATC was pretty good (and really missed in MSFS) there never was (imho!) a really good ATC add on. Either the voices were really bad or the planning was way too cumbersome or ATC simply didn't control traffic... As it is now I am back to default ATC and it's good enough for me right now. I think I have given up hope for a real good ATC addon, one where you file a plan with a single click (SB support!) after which ATC does ALL the rest. Having to enter SID and STAR myself (some ATC addons even require you to actually program the procedures yourself!) and also altitudes and restrictions is a no go for me. But since this always has been a problem and apparently too difficult to program I doubt if it is ever going to happen.

[ricka47 612]

2 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Agreed. Fact is that even though imho ProATC was pretty good (and really missed in MSFS) there never was (imho!) a really good ATC add on. Either the voices were really bad or the planning was way too cumbersome or ATC simply didn't control traffic... As it is now I am back to default ATC and it's good enough for me right now. I think I have given up hope for a real good ATC addon, one where you file a plan with a single click (SB support!) after which ATC does ALL the rest. Having to enter SID and STAR myself (some ATC addons even require you to actually program the procedures yourself!) and also altitudes and restrictions is a no go for me. But since this always has been a problem and apparently too difficult to program I doubt if it is ever going to happen.

I dunno. If you think about it, the default ATC is pretty good. Yes, there is a lot I'd like to change but I remember using XP11 after coming from FSX and P3D and how bad that was. So, I would hope that they continue to do some tweaking and maybe some major changes along the way.

If not, I'm not giving up hope that a third party solution will come along that will be a substantial improvement to the default ATC.

[Julius Saint 1]

5 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

I dunno. If you think about it, the default ATC is pretty good. Yes, there is a lot I'd like to change but I remember using XP11 after coming from FSX and P3D and how bad that was. So, I would hope that they continue to do some tweaking and maybe some major changes along the way.

If not, I'm not giving up hope that a third party solution will come along that will be a substantial improvement to the default ATC.

I fully agree. MSFS ATC is not bad. Eu uso o ATC default. But from my point of view, all Asobo has done so far is to fix bugs and since launch (almost two years) there has been no improvement. I think the following topics should be implemented by Asobo:

- +SID/STARS on releases. (automatic)
- Efficient Radar vectoring in required IFR approaches.
- Taxiways names updated.
- Opening and closing the flight plan on a specific screen after starting the "game".
-Direct-To option for positions.
- ATC Online and Multiplayer.
-Chat between unknown pilots in multiplayer.

I'm sorry FSHUD is so flawed, I was very hopeful. If Asobo only put a chat in Weather and Real Time multiplayer, it would already be a big improvement. So we could communicate.

I believe that for third parties, this is difficult. As a developer, I say that the variables are many and the best way to implement this would be with artificial intelligence, but for Asobo, which has everything within reach, why not?

[Julius Saint 1]

24 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Agreed. Fact is that even though imho ProATC was pretty good (and really missed in MSFS) there never was (imho!) a really good ATC add on. Either the voices were really bad or the planning was way too cumbersome or ATC simply didn't control traffic... As it is now I am back to default ATC and it's good enough for me right now. I think I have given up hope for a real good ATC addon, one where you file a plan with a single click (SB support!) after which ATC does ALL the rest. Having to enter SID and STAR myself (some ATC addons even require you to actually program the procedures yourself!) and also altitudes and restrictions is a no go for me. But since this always has been a problem and apparently too difficult to program I doubt if it is ever going to happen.

Really PRO/ATC is the best addon we could have. I miss him on MSFS. Currently the best addon is Pilot2Atc. The software is amazing at everything. the problem is that there are confusing options to choose from, it is by audio and not by menu, we are alone in communications and without interaction with the world around us. It is very well programmed, lacking a person to reprogram the interface. Sometimes when I fly on P2ATC I miss many things and I go back to the default ATC and ask myself: "Why can't you be like him."

[Cpt_Piett 4,807]

31 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

Bottom-line, the default ATC isn't awful and I use it for every flight. But some improvements would be so appreciated!

Agreed. In fact I think the biggest need for improvement lies in the AI aircraft behavior, which at the moment is quite nonsensical.

[CFIJose 5,485]

$35? They must be joking.

I read yesterday that the ATC will be improved. If there's one thing that WU 10 taught me is to stop buying add-ons and enjoy what I have.

Edited June 15, 2022 by DJJose

[F737MAX 5,736]

Despite the best efforts of countless developers, I don't think we'll ever see a coherent and flexible to circumstances ATC add-on. It's just too difficult to code for every eventuality.

My solution?
If your budget allows: get the 'Standard Edition' annual subscription to RealTraffic, get the excellent freeware PSXseeconTraffic (donations welcome), download the AIG AI models, and open up LiveATC.net in VLC media player.

What PSXT can do is enable you to block a certain callsign from displaying. That way, your flight can replicate a real-world one. Here's how to get real ATC and displayed AI to sync.
RealTraffic's basic subscription allows upto 24 hours' worth of historical data.

It's the most realistic you can (currently) get.

[ha5mvo 260]

11 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Despite the best efforts of countless developers, I don't think we'll ever see a coherent and flexible to circumstances ATC add-on. It's just too difficult to code for every eventuality.

My solution?
If your budget allows: get the 'Standard Edition' annual subscription to RealTraffic, get the excellent freeware PSXseeconTraffic (donations welcome), download the AIG AI models, and open up LiveATC.net in VLC media player.

What PSXT can do is enable you to block a certain callsign from displaying. That way, your flight can replicate a real-world one. Here's how to get real ATC and displayed AI to sync.
RealTraffic's basic subscription allows upto 24 hours' worth of historical data.

It's the most realistic you can (currently) get.

While this is quite cool in getting “as real as it gets “ atc, it’s also quite limited in city pairs or enroute coverage. Kind of like ivao or vatsim, which brings us back to square one     

[regis9 4,034]

There’s all kinds of things that may or may not be feasible that could make default ATC “perfect” but in my mind there’s a much shorter list of quality of life items that could make it much more serviceable:

- give altitude clearances more than 200 feet before the aircraft reaches the previously cleared altitude.  That is annoying (particularly in aircraft without VNAV) and unrealistic for most airspace.

- assign a SID during clearance.  Even just reading the user selected SID would add immersion.

- figure out once and for all why ATC voices go silent and fix it.

- better recognition of an aircraft approach top of descent so the initial descent clearance can be given early enough so you don’t end up chasing the descent path all the way down.  I find initial descent clearances are often late if they happen at all.  Throw in some pilot discretion clearances to shake things up.

- better (any?) vectoring for approach once off a star.

- FAA phraseology in the US and Canada, ICAO everywhere else 

- variable transition levels outside of North America.  This data exists and should be able to be used.

I could go on but that list would solve 99% of my gripes with default ATC and remove a need for another product for me at least.

Edited June 15, 2022 by regis9

[kakihara123 144]

8 minutes ago, regis9 said:

There’s all kinds of things that may or may not be feasible that could make default ATC “perfect” but in my mind there’s a much shorter list of quality of life items that could make it much more serviceable:

- give altitude clearances more than 200 feet before the aircraft reaches the previously cleared altitude.  That is annoying (particularly in aircraft without VNAV) and unrealistic for most airspace.

- assign a SID during clearance.  Even just reading the user selected SID would add immersion.

- figure out once and for all why ATC voices go silent and fix it.

- better recognition of an aircraft approach top of descent so the initial descent clearance can be given early enough so you don’t end up chasing the descent path all the way down.  I find initial descent clearances are often late if they happen at all.  Throw in some pilot discretion clearances to shake things up.

- better (any?) vectoring for approach once off a star.

- FAA phraseology in the US and Canada, ICAO everywhere else 

- variable transition levels outside of North America.  This data exists and should be able to be used.

I could go on but that list would solve 99% of my gripes with default ATC and remove a need for another product for me at least.

For me these are the most important things to make it enjoyable to use:

- Automatic vectoring without needing to ask again and again for the next waypoint. I don't know when I reach that waypoint, so the only way to find out is ask until they give me another heading. I have no idea how this can get approved in Q/A, especially when this function is working in X-Plane 11
- unable function

- altitude assignments with aircraft type in mind

- possibility to declare emergencies. 

- fixing the chaotic altitude assignments over mountains 

- holds and traffic separation

- being able to ask for a direct, atc allowing you to go direct automatically depending on how much traffic there is

- diversions 

- approaches being early enough so I actually have time to program the fmc...

Voices, correct phraseology are nice to have but worthless if the basic functionality is not working. And I don't think that those above points are that unreasonable. They also don't have to be added at the same time. How about we get vectors first? I mean the functionality is there. ATC just doesn't tell us when we arrive at a waypoint...

[rob0203 697]

I would like to add a randomizer for:

Sometimes vectors, sometimes a transition. Like with Pilot2Atc you almost always get the transition while in reallife you get vectors a lot!

Also with directs, not allways but sometimes just like in real life.

And with takeoff, sometimes line up and wait other times for example: Are you ready for a immediate departure?

Sometimes hold, sometimes not

More things even possible……

There are a lot of things which could be improved to removed the script kind of feeling by adding a simple algorithm for randomizations!

Nothing feels more boring then when knowing what Atc everytime does again and again!

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by rob0203