Fenix and performance

[CrashEd 8]

7 minutes ago, captain420 said:

EBBR payware or default?

Payware. 

[VBHB 298]

Mainthread got smashed on the ground at KBOS had to rebuild my settings to keep a solid locked 35fps.

[captain420 3,099]

18 minutes ago, CrashEd said:

Payware. 

I get about 30-34fps at the gate.

[CrashEd 8]

8 hours ago, captain420 said:

I get about 30-34fps at the gate.

Ok good, I get the same. 
 

It’s ok to post post performance figures, but one thing the Fenix (unlike other addons, PMDG etc) seems to be heavily dependant on is higher detail payware scenery. EBBR and EGLL are my default areas for benchmarking as they will affect it the most. 

[Cpt_Piett 4,776]

Great update! 

I put display rendering on the CPU (previously GPU) and increased display resolution from balanced to quality as the displays can now take advantage of multi threading. Also used the highest cockpit textures. I was locked at 30fps before the update, so no changes in fps. But everything runs very smooth. Panning around the cockpit is fluid, no stutters.

I’ll probably make some changes to core affinity. Thinking of having all Fenix apps and AIG traffic controller use all cores except the busiest MSFS core, and let Process Lasso take care of the rest. 

The new panel state behavior is also working great. Straight to cold and dark when starting up, and also instant change to ready mode.

EDIT: just saw this from the changelog: “Fixed pushback issues, pushbacks should now just work”

I wonder if that means Pushback Express is working now. Anyone had a chance to try it out?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Cpt_Piett

[Nyxx 6,994]

11 hours ago, CrashEd said:

Payware. 

[JYW 2,989]

I think the issue for some is that this update only helps those who already have powerful CPUs.  The people with very powerful systems, running max textures, ultra settings all round and lots of traffic.   Happy you can now get 30 FPS smooth!   However, this plane (IMHO) remains a very poor experience for those who have mid range CPUs, GTX1080Tis, etc.    Before all the hardware snobs tell me that a GTX1080Ti is "horribly outdated" and "rubbish", well it gives me fantastic performance in MSFS with all other aircraft.  Hardware not being powerful enough can only be cited as a problem if it is a constraint across the board.   I hate making a PMDG comparison, I really do! ... but MSFS with almost all high settings, at a hand-crafted airport in the 737 = 45 super smooth FPS.    The new threading option in the update has provided no performance increase for me.    In fact, to be clear, my issue with the Fenix is not FPS related.   I get 30-35 FPS in most instances.  However it's exceptionally unsmooth.   Stutters, FPS micro-variations, sound glitches and distortion.  30 FPS would be perfect if it was 30 smooth and stable frames per second.

I just really hope that Fenix can get to the bottom of the CPU load with this product.  The demands are unprecedented.   I did a test and (temporarily) downscaled every texture to 2k.   My humble GTX1080Ti just laughed and said "is that it?".   Even a modest GTX1080Ti is not even taxed by this plane.  It's a huge CPU bottleneck. I won't use the 'unusable' word that triggers some people, but I would say that unless you have a latest gen, very high speed CPU, this plane is currently just not enjoyable.    The issue being, even financials apart, the availability of such CPUs is still very patchy.  

For those that get upset by a single perceived negative post about the Fenix, bear in mind £50 is a lot of money to some of us.  I too read the "performance is similar to the FBW" comment (although I appreciate that was no contractual promise) and as I get 40-50 smooth FPS in the FBW, thought the Fenix would be a goer.  Instead it's just a £50 loss at this stage.   PS.. I don't do refunds unless a seller has deliberately deceived in what is offered, and clearly that is not the case here. 

 

[Nyxx 6,994]

7 minutes ago, JYW said:

I think the issue for some is that this update only helps those who already have powerful CPUs.  The people with very powerful systems, running max textures, ultra settings all round and lots of traffic.   Happy you can now get 30 FPS smooth!   However, this plane (IMHO) remains a very poor experience for those who have mid range CPUs, GTX1080Tis, etc.    Before all the hardware snobs tell me that a GTX1080Ti is "horribly outdated" and "rubbish", well it gives me fantastic performance in MSFS with all other aircraft.  Hardware not being powerful enough can only be cited as a problem if it is a constraint across the board.   I hate making a PMDG comparison, I really do! ... but MSFS with almost all high settings, at a hand-crafted airport in the 737 = 45 super smooth FPS.    The new threading option in the update has provided no performance increase for me.    In fact, to be clear, my issue with the Fenix is not FPS related.   I get 30-35 FPS in most instances.  However it's exceptionally unsmooth.   Stutters, FPS micro-variations, sound glitches and distortion.  30 FPS would be perfect if it was 30 smooth and stable frames per second.

I just really hope that Fenix can get to the bottom of the CPU load with this product.  The demands are unprecedented.   I did a test and (temporarily) downscaled every texture to 2k.   My humble GTX1080Ti just laughed and said "is that it?".   Even a modest GTX1080Ti is not even taxed by this plane.  It's a huge CPU bottleneck. I won't use the 'unusable' word that triggers some people, but I would say that unless you have a latest gen, very high speed CPU, this plane is currently just not enjoyable.    The issue being, even financials apart, the availability of such CPUs is still very patchy.  

For those that get upset by a single perceived negative post about the Fenix, bear in mind £50 is a lot of money to some of us.  I too read the "performance is similar to the FBW" comment (although I appreciate that was no contractual promise) and as I get 40-50 smooth FPS in the FBW, thought the Fenix would be a goer.  Instead it's just a £50 loss at this stage.   PS.. I don't do refunds unless a seller has deliberately deceived in what is offered, and clearly that is not the case here. 

 

This guy has the spec below. He would love to have your 1080Ti, have a look and find his setting, it might help?

PC Specs: Ryzen 5 3600 GeForce GTX 1660 32gb RAM (3200hz)  1TB Hard Drive (HDD) 1080 Resolution

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Nyxx

[Tom Wright 438]

1 hour ago, JYW said:

I think the issue for some is that this update only helps those who already have powerful CPUs.  The people with very powerful systems, running max textures, ultra settings all round and lots of traffic.   Happy you can now get 30 FPS smooth!   However, this plane (IMHO) remains a very poor experience for those who have mid range CPUs, GTX1080Tis, etc.    Before all the hardware snobs tell me that a GTX1080Ti is "horribly outdated" and "rubbish", well it gives me fantastic performance in MSFS with all other aircraft.  Hardware not being powerful enough can only be cited as a problem if it is a constraint across the board.   I hate making a PMDG comparison, I really do! ... but MSFS with almost all high settings, at a hand-crafted airport in the 737 = 45 super smooth FPS.    The new threading option in the update has provided no performance increase for me. 

Yes I agree. I tend to do most of my tests with it at Gatwick (mkvy excellent freeware one) and performance there is pretty awful. I thought it must be the airport but nope, I've just flown in there in the 737 with quite a lot of AI traffic around and it was almost as smooth as silk.

I still love the Fenix bus, it's beautifully put together and great to fly, but performance wise it just isn't as enjoyable for me as the 737.

[Fiorentoni 4,290]

1 hour ago, JYW said:

I think the issue for some is that this update only helps those who already have powerful CPUs.  The people with very powerful systems, running max textures, ultra settings all round and lots of traffic.   Happy you can now get 30 FPS smooth!   However, this plane (IMHO) remains a very poor experience for those who have mid range CPUs, GTX1080Tis, etc.    Before all the hardware snobs tell me that a GTX1080Ti is "horribly outdated" and "rubbish", well it gives me fantastic performance in MSFS with all other aircraft.  Hardware not being powerful enough can only be cited as a problem if it is a constraint across the board.   I hate making a PMDG comparison, I really do! ... but MSFS with almost all high settings, at a hand-crafted airport in the 737 = 45 super smooth FPS.    The new threading option in the update has provided no performance increase for me.    In fact, to be clear, my issue with the Fenix is not FPS related.   I get 30-35 FPS in most instances.  However it's exceptionally unsmooth.   Stutters, FPS micro-variations, sound glitches and distortion.  30 FPS would be perfect if it was 30 smooth and stable frames per second.

I just really hope that Fenix can get to the bottom of the CPU load with this product.  The demands are unprecedented.   I did a test and (temporarily) downscaled every texture to 2k.   My humble GTX1080Ti just laughed and said "is that it?".   Even a modest GTX1080Ti is not even taxed by this plane.  It's a huge CPU bottleneck. I won't use the 'unusable' word that triggers some people, but I would say that unless you have a latest gen, very high speed CPU, this plane is currently just not enjoyable.    The issue being, even financials apart, the availability of such CPUs is still very patchy.  

For those that get upset by a single perceived negative post about the Fenix, bear in mind £50 is a lot of money to some of us.  I too read the "performance is similar to the FBW" comment (although I appreciate that was no contractual promise) and as I get 40-50 smooth FPS in the FBW, thought the Fenix would be a goer.  Instead it's just a £50 loss at this stage.   PS.. I don't do refunds unless a seller has deliberately deceived in what is offered, and clearly that is not the case here. 

 

What do you except from a plane with deep systems? That's literally what a CPU is for. Less CPU demand means less systems depth (in general). I really don't understand what your point is. I have a 1080ti, too, and I paid three times (!) the amount for it (oh and it was a used one, too) that I paid for my Ryzen 5600x, which is upper-mid-tier (and def not latest gen), and enables me to run 30 FPS on ultra with LOD 200 with 200 AI aircraft around me basically anywhere in the Fenix. And smooth, butter smooth. I have never seen such a deep product that well optimized - yes, you heard it.

Now if you don't have the money for a better CPU, that's fine, but then turn down LOD and AI traffic and PG and you're good. It's not like you need a 3000 dollars 3090ti to run it. If you still have stutters with the mainthread "green", you have another problem (mod conflict, server problems with PG etc.). Anyway I hope you figure it out, because it does seem a lot of people with modest systems are able to run it very well, so I wish you that pleasure too.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Fiorentoni

[blueshark747 1,845]

For a "mid range" GPU my "outdated" 1080ti chews through MSFS like butter running some pretty high settings in VR with 1.4SS and in sim 90TAA.

Max Clouds and texture resolutions.

[pilotter 261]

Key to fluid fps can be Photogammetry off. I have a nice system, but always stutters even with high FPS . with PG off, all gone

tried all the tricks , currently Vsync in game and locked 33fps. Enjoying the Fenix with all his flavors.

Edited June 2, 2022 by pilotter

[CrashEd 8]

14 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

What do you except from a plane with deep systems? That's literally what a CPU is for. Less CPU demand means less systems depth (in general). I really don't understand what your point is. I have a 1080ti, too, and I paid three times (!) the amount for it (oh and it was a used one, too) that I paid for my Ryzen 5600x, which is upper-mid-tier (and def not latest gen), and enables me to run 30 FPS on ultra with LOD 200 with 200 AI aircraft around me basically anywhere in the Fenix. And smooth, butter smooth. I have never seen such a deep product that well optimized - yes, you heard it.

Now if you don't have the money for a better CPU, that's fine, but then turn down LOD and AI traffic and PG and you're good. It's not like you need a 3000 dollars 3090ti to run it. If you still have stutters with the mainthread "green", you have another problem (mod conflict, server problems with PG etc.). Anyway I hope you figure it out, because it does seem a lot of people with modest systems are able to run it very well, so I wish you that pleasure too.

Please try it at EBBR or EGLL and then report back with your fps. 

With respect, I completely disagree that it is well optimised. It’s good, but not great.  That fact that the 737 can run butter smooth on most machines at any payware airport is evidence that it is far better optimised. The Fenix runs on Prosim, so there are bound to be optimisation issues that are out of their control. The PMDG was written for MSFS from the ground-up. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by CrashEd

[Fiorentoni 4,290]

3 hours ago, CrashEd said:

Please try it at EBBR or EGLL and then report back with your fps. 

With respect, I completely disagree that it is well optimised. It’s good, but not great.  That fact that the 737 can run butter smooth on most machines at any payware airport is evidence that it is far better optimised. The Fenix runs on Prosim, so there are bound to be optimisation issues that are out of their control. The PMDG was written for MSFS from the ground-up. 

EGLL from Inibuilds (no AI, LOD 200, displays "quality"): 35 FPS
EGLL from Inibuilds (with AIG 100%, LOD 200, displays "quality"): 22-23 FPS

Now EGLL from Inibuilds is the worst offender in the whole MSFS, so that's where I would tone down LOD or AI% to get at least 26-ish FPS.
I don't have EBBR (yet).

Don't draw false conclusions in regards to "performs better = more optimised". The 737 - although being study level itself and perfectly fine - is vastly less/simpler modelled in regards to the Fenix. We are talking 1-2 levels of fidelity. This of course means less calculations = less CPU demand - and therefore in a CPU-intensive context a better FPS. But this doesn't mean it's better optimised, although you made valid points to how it's quite probable that the 737 is better optimised; but we will never be able to compare because they are on different levels of system modelling. I don't compare the well-running CRJ either with any of those.

Now what you could say is that the 737 is systems-wise all you ever dreamed of and therefore see no advantage in a deeper modelled Fenix, that ends up with less FPS. But this is a personal thing in the end.

[odourboy 1,290]

4 hours ago, CrashEd said:

The PMDG was written for MSFS from the ground-up

The PMDG was written for FSX from the ground-up. There! I fixed it for you! 😁