13 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

To be fair, not all buyers of this aircraft have been simming since the first PMDG aircraft, so it will be fresh to them. Also, there can't be much innovation as it is a 737 after all.

Not true at all.

You could equally say that Fenix can’t innovate because “it’s just another A320”. But they absolutely went out and innovated, big time.

The 737 in MSFS has very little innovation when compared to 2011’s NGX. The NGX had some cool new stuff, like the collimated HUGS. The MSFS 737 is…solid, but uninspiring as a release.

There are so many things PMDG could do, but being original really doesn’t seem to be their ethos. 

They’re still making the best Boeings in MSFS, but I’m not convinced that they’re on the right path to keep that title in the medium term.

8 hours ago, Nyxx said:

It was a simple sum up of a wall of text, carm down, I love the 737 and all the PMDG stuff I have own. 

Hostilily...lol, it seems atleast 7 people understood where I was coming from but there is always one.🙂

Your summary was actually kind compared so some reactions.

If anyone wants to see a harsh, but kind of amusing, take on PMDG’s latest wall of text, have a look at u/ForsakenEmu’s thoughts on r/flightsim.

I love my 737-700, but it would be fair to say that Captain Randazzo is not currently very popular with the masses…

24 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Not true at all.

You could equally say that Fenix can’t innovate because “it’s just another A320”. But they absolutely went out and innovated, big time.

The 737 in MSFS has very little innovation when compared to 2011’s NGX. The NGX had some cool new stuff, like the collimated HUGS. The MSFS 737 is…solid, but uninspiring as a release.

There are so many things PMDG could do, but being original really doesn’t seem to be their ethos. 

They’re still making the best Boeings in MSFS, but I’m not convinced that they’re on the right path to keep that title in the medium term.

I have the new PMDG 737 for MSFS, an admittedly don’t use many of the advanced features. What bugs me, however, is that I feel as though I’ve purchased the same plane four times, all at full price. That was my choice of course, as I really wanted a quality 737. When I consider that I paid $10 less for the Fenix A320 yesterday, which was built from the ground up specifically for MSFS, I do get a bit annoyed with PMDG. Fenix has never received one dime from me until yesterday, and yet I paid less for their brand new aircraft than I did for my fourth iteration of essentially the same aircraft from PMDG. I’ve purchased pretty much every aircraft PMDG has developed going back to FSX and P3D, and they make great products. However, I find their business practices a bit frustrating sometimes.

Cheers, Pete

19 minutes ago, LRBS said:

I'm not attacking you at all.

It is a reaction to your posts where most of the time when somebody calls for a bug/discrepancy you constantly challenge that person or find any excuse of why it is wrong. Same as many in their forum can't accept that there is a problem.

 

On top of rejecting the idea that something is a miss, you get upset when I suggested checking their forum about the bugs or reading the FCOM where you can understand what is going on.

 

I say that because here would take too much space to list them while there many of them are listed.

 

I'm afraid that having in view that you have better things to do than studying this 737 and not really knowing what is happening you choose this path of "getting tired".

 

To clarify, if I and others are pointing out issues/bugs about this product is not to be taken as "an anti-PMDG-parade" (your statement is exactly PMDG textbook ), we call this progress and looking for fixes, nothing else.

This is getting seriously disrespectful now. I am not constantly challenging people or tell them they're wrong. Especially not when a real world pilot says there's something wrong with it. I'd be pretty stupid to try and deny that don't you think? Did you see me telling the poster I asked that he's wrong? No, you didn't. I'm well aware that the product isn't perfect and that is has bugs. I never denied a bug, not once. As for the times I disagree, it's either because I know it's not a bug or because - you know - I disagree in my own opinion about something, which I think you're having a hard time grasping the concept of.

I asked another person (not you) a simple question who gave a decent answer and it's ridiculous what you make out of that and that you try to call me out for the third time in the forums now to the point of disparaging me as some kind of insincere person. Last time this ended with a moderator deleting your posts, and I'm this close to reporting your posts here if you don't get off my back and stop spreading lies and/or completely misinterpret what I allegedly do or have done - all because we disagreed on some occasions.

Good job btw specifically mentioning the bit about anti-PMDG-parade that I immediately edited back out of my post because I realized that was completely off the mark... very genuine.

36 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

When I consider that I paid $10 less for the Fenix A320 yesterday, which was built from the ground up specifically for MSFS, I do get a bit annoyed with PMDG.

Now that the dust has settled and I saw what was delivered from Fenix for a lesser price, I am too annoyed. I’m am not sure what 17k hours of development was spent on, but the deliverables are certainly underwhelming. I hate the drama, so I’m just going to let them as a Company come through with what they promised in the timeline they promised. They’re definitely under some major pressure now to deliver, or they’re going to have to deal with some major revolting. 

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by Drumcode

Competition will be very healthy for PMDG. They held the top for a long time. Now they have to up their game. Good for us! 

5 minutes ago, RobJC said:

Competition will be very healthy for PMDG. They held the top for a long time. Now they have to up their game. Good for us! 

Hopefully they reconsider their pricing structure as well for the remaining 737 variants (not holding my breath of course). No way I’m spending anywhere near $60 for another variant of essentially the same plane. I can’t speak for anyone else, but that may be a tough sell for them. I am perfectly happy staying with just the 700, but for the right price I’d probably get the 800 as well.

Cheers, Pete

1 hour ago, PilotPete99 said:

I can’t speak for anyone else, but that may be a tough sell for them.

This is how I feel. I am not at all interested in spending 60 dollars for the 800 if it is no more developed than the 700 is. I will hold off and see how PMDG evolve in this new environment and what they bring to the table in terms of their EFB, cabin interior and updates, as they have said they will. But honestly, I think they will need to go beyond this if they wish to stay relevant. In 2022 they released a 737 in which the pilot can not even open the window.

Please do not misread this, I have been a customer of PMDG since 2011 and have bought and enjoyed nearly every product they have made (buying and rebuying them), including this 700 for MSFS, which I must  say performs incredibly well. They are a very competent developer and I want them to succeed. But I do not have unlimited funds nor unlimited time and I would prefer to spend both on more feature rich aircraft than what PMDG put out in the 737. 

I'm not sure why there is a complaint about the fact that one had to pay 2 to 4 times for the same product on different sim platforms.  If PMDG did an exact copy paste of code from one platform to the next with some minor touch up work then some would have a point but this paid 4 times argument at least to me doesnt hold weight. The developers have to be paid for the work they have done and moving code from one platform to another is not a simple copy paste job or else we wouldn't be just now getting this AC almost two years from MSFS release.

If you want to complain about paying the same or more for a variant of the same product on the same platform however then be my guest.  It would be interesting to see if PMDG sticks to their guns on variant pricing after the Fenix release.

I for one as a first time buyer of both can say that i am very happy and enjoying them. Ive got only two or three AC left that i am interested in but pretty much the shorthaul main courses have been served,

3 minutes ago, Maxis said:

I'm not sure why there is a complaint about the fact that one had to pay 2 to 4 times for the same product on different sim platforms.  If PMDG did an exact copy paste of code from one platform to the next with some minor touch up work then some would have a point but this paid 4 times argument at least to me doesnt hold weight. The developers have to be paid for the work they have done and moving code from one platform to another is not a simple copy paste job or else we wouldn't be just now getting this AC almost two years from MSFS release.

If you want to complain about paying the same or more for a variant of the same product on the same platform however then be my guest.  It would be interesting to see if PMDG sticks to their guns on variant pricing after the Fenix release.

I for one as a first time buyer of both can say that i am very happy and enjoying them. Ive got only two or three AC left that i am interested in but pretty much the shorthaul main courses have been served,

Are you saying that you have never purchased a PMDG product until now?
 

Cheers, Pete

1 minute ago, PilotPete99 said:

Are you saying that you have never purchased a PMDG product until now?
 

Cheers, Pete

I haven't because i took a break from simming when FSX was released and came back for MSFS2020. But if i had decided to buy lets say Prepared 3d and needed to get the PMDG 737 for that platform i don't see why i shouldn't be paying going rate for it .. Its a different platform after all.

3 minutes ago, Maxis said:

I haven't because i took a break from simming when FSX was released and came back for MSFS2020. But if i had decided to buy lets say Prepared 3d and needed to get the PMDG 737 for that platform i don't see why i shouldn't be paying going rate for it .. Its a different platform after all.

The people that are questioning PMDG’s pricing structure are ones, like myself, who have spent sometimes over $1,000 on their products over the years. As several here have mentioned, there have not really been many  overly significant changes to the 737 from one platform to another. So, many of us feel as though we are getting charged for a brand new plane once again, when in fact it seems as though each iteration of the 737 is built on the existing code from the previous model. I apologize in advance if there is any misstatements in what I am saying.

Cheers, Pete

16 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

The people that are questioning PMDG’s pricing structure are ones, like myself, who have spent sometimes over $1,000 on their products over the years. As several here have mentioned, there have not really been many  overly significant changes to the 737 from one platform to another. So, many of us feel as though we are getting charged for a brand new plane once again, when in fact it seems as though each iteration of the 737 is built on the existing code from the previous model. I apologize in advance if there is any misstatements in what I am saying.

Cheers, Pete

There isn't a misstatement on your part.  ,.. I just don't agree with your argument regardless of how much you have spent.. Its a 737 .. its going to be the same or very similar experience. The work and coding involved in porting that experience into a whole different sim is what your paying for. That's what im pointing out. You may feel hard done by it but someone had to do the work and it needs to be paid for.

Aside from the port. The variant pricing argument  where most of the systems work has already been done but the charge is the same for a frame stretch or reduction is where i think some can hang their hat on. I wont join in that argument but at least its a more plausible one.

Just my opinion on the pricing "issues"

Anyways .. Just did KBNA-KBUF in the Fenix .. on to a new flight in the "C40-B" Clipper

Cheers

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by Maxis

1 minute ago, Maxis said:

There isn't a misstatement on your part.  ,.. I just don't agree with your argument regardless of how much you have spent.. Its a 737 .. its going to be the same or very similar experience. The work and coding involved in porting that experience into a whole different sim is what your paying for. That's what im pointing out. You may feel hard done by it but someone had to do the work and it needs to be paid for.

No worries, it’s perfectly fine to disagree. The thing is, Fenix built a complex plane from the ground up for a brand new platform, and yet somehow they are willing to charge less than PMDG did for an improved version of an existing product. It’s certainly their choice to charge what they want, but I personally find it a bit greedy. It would have been nice for them to offer a discount for previous owners, but they didn’t because they didn’t want to. And yet, I still bought the plane. You may feel differently, however, if you had purchased all of the previous iterations, whether you think so now or not. It is a very fair argument in my opinion.

Cheers, Pete

12 minutes ago, Maxis said:

Its a 737 .. its going to be the same or very similar experience.

If there's one thing that Fenix have proven, it's that it's the above statement that doesn't hold.

Just because the PMDG NGX of 2011 was a 737 and the PMDG 737 for MSFS is a 737 does not mean that more cannot be offered in the newer development.  What about ambient features such as being able to open the pilot window?  What about the whole EFB discussion?   What about audio ambience capabilities such as passenger / crew boarding sounds and announcements?    Those things are not impossible, simply because "well it's a 737 again, so it's bound to be the same" (appreciate I'm paraphrasing there).

I love the PMDG737 for MSFS.  I actually prefer the overall "in the cockpit" ambience of it, over the Fenix A320. But it's hard to deny that PMDG need to up their game; not where quality level is concerned (that's a given), but where features and added value is concerned.  

Whilst, from a quality perspective, it's clearly far superior, the PMDG 737 for MSFS is lacking in some features that the PMDG 737 for FSX offered.   In the 2011 FSX version, you could assign literally dozens of functions to keyboard commands (handy for things like the MCP controls).   That function is referenced as being offered in the MSFS version, but is missing, which is a bit shocking really.  They clearly intended to add it, but couldn't provide it, yet forgot the remove reference to it from the manual!

They definitely need to up their game.   And the fact that it's another 737 that they're offering does not in any way prevent them from doing so.