27 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

No worries, it’s perfectly fine to disagree. The thing is, Fenix built a complex plane from the ground up for a brand new platform, and yet somehow they are willing to charge less than PMDG did for an improved version of an existing product. It’s certainly their choice to charge what they want, but I personally find it a bit greedy. It would have been nice for them to offer a discount for previous owners, but they didn’t because they didn’t want to. And yet, I still bought the plane. You may feel differently, however, if you had purchased all of the previous iterations, whether you think so now or not. It is a very fair argument in my opinion.

Cheers, Pete

Point of correction .. The underlying software Fenix is using is a licensed version of Prosim .. This is not a complete ground up thing .. Not bashing Fenix but lets get  the facts right. While Fenix product is great overall there were major shortcuts used in getting to this point. The fact that PMDG and lets say FSLABS had to write every bit of code for their product is not to be ignored.

Added to that ...peeling the layers off the veneer.. I would actually give a bit more appreciation to the guys at FBW .. who are doing the reverse ... Taking a model and rewriting an entire aircraft's systems vs the other way round.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by Maxis

4 minutes ago, Maxis said:

Point of correction .. The underlying software Fenix is using is a licensed version of Prosim .. This is not a complete ground up thing .. Not bashing Fenix but lets get  the facts right. While Fenix product is great overall there were major shortcuts used in getting to this point. The fact that PMDG and lets say FSLABS had to write every bit of code for their product is not to be ignored.

Fair enough on that correction. Still, an exceptionally fair price for what is a brand new aircraft to everyone who bought it. 
 

Cheers, Pete

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by PilotPete99

14 minutes ago, JYW said:

If there's one thing that Fenix have proven, it's that it's the above statement that doesn't hold.

Just because the PMDG NGX of 2011 was a 737 and the PMDG 737 for MSFS is a 737 does not mean that more cannot be offered in the newer development.  What about ambient features such as being able to open the pilot window?  What about the whole EFB discussion?   What about audio ambience capabilities such as passenger / crew boarding sounds and announcements?    Those things are not impossible, simply because "well it's a 737 again, so it's bound to be the same" (appreciate I'm paraphrasing there).

I love the PMDG737 for MSFS.  I actually prefer the overall "in the cockpit" ambience of it, over the Fenix A320. But it's hard to deny that PMDG need to up their game; not where quality level is concerned (that's a given), but where features and added value is concerned.  

Whilst, from a quality perspective, it's clearly far superior, the PMDG 737 for MSFS is lacking in some features that the PMDG 737 for FSX offered.   In the 2011 FSX version, you could assign literally dozens of functions to keyboard commands (handy for things like the MCP controls).   That function is referenced as being offered in the MSFS version, but is missing, which is a bit shocking really.  They clearly intended to add it, but couldn't provide it, yet forgot the remove reference to it from the manual!

They definitely need to up their game.   And the fact that it's another 737 that they're offering does not in any way prevent them from doing so. 

The only thing lacking in the PMDG that i care about is the EFB and they stated that will be coming.. The rest are extra that i personally don't care much about to be honest. But im sure they are important to you and i can respect that.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by Maxis

Wrong thread

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by blueshark747

13 minutes ago, Maxis said:

Point of correction .. The underlying software Fenix is using is a licensed version of Prosim .. This is not a complete ground up thing .. Not bashing Fenix but lets get  the facts right. While Fenix product is great overall there were major shortcuts used in getting to this point. The fact that PMDG and lets say FSLABS had to write every bit of code for their product is not to be ignored.

I actually think this is a very important fact that I don’t see referenced very often. I also do not intend to detract from the quality Fenix is offering, but it certainly is not from scratch or from the ground up and it really is worth repeating this given how many people seem to think differently. Hence why the Fenix was developed relatively quickly compared to e.g. FSLabs, which really was a ‘from scratch’ simulation and therefore took many years to complete. Again, I have all of these addons and I like all of them, but some care should be taken when comparing different addons.

In the past you could always rely on PMDG and really... nothing has changed. They still care and they still make fantastic simulations. 

55 minutes ago, Maxis said:

Point of correction .. The underlying software Fenix is using is a licensed version of Prosim .. This is not a complete ground up thing .. Not bashing Fenix but lets get  the facts right. While Fenix product is great overall there were major shortcuts used in getting to this point. The fact that PMDG and lets say FSLABS had to write every bit of code for their product is not to be ignored.

As a consumer, I do not see why this matters. I paid one price. For that, I apparently received the work of two development teams. 

I'm not a big fan of reinventing the wheel. If Prosim had useful functionality than Fenix was able to leverage in order to reduce their time and cost investment to allow them to bring the product to market at a reasonable price, which they have, then why do I care? 

4 minutes ago, MDFlier said:

As a consumer, I do not see why this matters. I paid one price. For that, I apparently received the work of two development teams. 

I'm not a big fan of reinventing the wheel. If Prosim had useful functionality than Fenix was able to leverage in order to reduce their time and cost investment to allow them to bring the product to market at a reasonable price, which they have, then why do I care? 

Clever business if you ask me. not sure why RR never went down the same path ...

2 hours ago, MDFlier said:

As a consumer, I do not see why this matters. I paid one price. For that, I apparently received the work of two development teams. 

I'm not a big fan of reinventing the wheel. If Prosim had useful functionality than Fenix was able to leverage in order to reduce their time and cost investment to allow them to bring the product to market at a reasonable price, which they have, then why do I care? 

No one is asking you to care .. I'm just correcting the record re the "ground up" assertion and the related argument regarding it. Im sure you can see that. If not .. oh well.

Its funny .. on one hand here we have someone telling me they don't want to reinvent the wheel but then this very thread has people in here slagging a product for  "not innovating" enough.

Typical Avsim

 

Edited May 23, 20224 yr by Maxis

well, was the PMDG "ground up" for this sim?  or was it adapting their existing codebase for a new sandbox?

10 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

If anyone wants to see a harsh, but kind of amusing, take on PMDG’s latest wall of text, have a look at u/ForsakenEmu’s thoughts on r/flightsim.

Thanks. Makes for a great read.

7 hours ago, JYW said:

If there's one thing that Fenix have proven, it's that it's the above statement that doesn't hold.

Just because the PMDG NGX of 2011 was a 737 and the PMDG 737 for MSFS is a 737 does not mean that more cannot be offered in the newer development.  What about ambient features such as being able to open the pilot window?  What about the whole EFB discussion?   What about audio ambience capabilities such as passenger / crew boarding sounds and announcements?    Those things are not impossible, simply because "well it's a 737 again, so it's bound to be the same" (appreciate I'm paraphrasing there).

I love the PMDG737 for MSFS.  I actually prefer the overall "in the cockpit" ambience of it, over the Fenix A320. But it's hard to deny that PMDG need to up their game; not where quality level is concerned (that's a given), but where features and added value is concerned.  

Whilst, from a quality perspective, it's clearly far superior, the PMDG 737 for MSFS is lacking in some features that the PMDG 737 for FSX offered.   In the 2011 FSX version, you could assign literally dozens of functions to keyboard commands (handy for things like the MCP controls).   That function is referenced as being offered in the MSFS version, but is missing, which is a bit shocking really.  They clearly intended to add it, but couldn't provide it, yet forgot the remove reference to it from the manual!

They definitely need to up their game.   And the fact that it's another 737 that they're offering does not in any way prevent them from doing so. 

This version won't be the last.  PMDG have planned alot of innovation for this product.  So for what you've paid, your 737 is going to continue to get better and better.

Don't think for a second that PMDG are leaving this aircraft unattended.  They have been pioneers of innovation many many years before FENIX turned up.

Jase

I can't wait for PMDG 737 MAX version! Did they mention when that will be out?

32 minutes ago, JaseMelbo said:

This version won't be the last.  PMDG have planned alot of innovation for this product.  So for what you've paid, your 737 is going to continue to get better and better.

Don't think for a second that PMDG are leaving this aircraft unattended.  They have been pioneers of innovation many many years before FENIX turned up.

Jase

PMDG is the great recycler - that's the way they do things. And I've been a PMDG customer since they launched their products for TRF.

No EFB at launch? Interior model not part of the interior? Gimme a break. It's 2022.

2 hours ago, captain420 said:

I can't wait for PMDG 737 MAX version! Did they mention when that will be out?

Not in the short term. I assume they will release the -600 till -900 first. Then the 777, followed by the 747. After that, maybe they will start to work on the 737 MAX. So don't expect it now.

About PMDG:

yes, PMDG could offer more.

What everybody awaits is probably the EFB. It is scheduled & coming. I just hope it will be as good as the Fenix one. I mean it have to include the take-off performance and things like that or it will be a disapointment.

It's better to have nice features than not having them, I agree. If the fact you can open the windows in the Fenix is nice, honnestly, how many times will you use it? To be honest, I tryed it one time to see how it worked. Not sure I will use it a second time. On the contrary, the fact that the whole cabin is displayed and you can open the cockpit door and travel in the cabin is nice. Even if I won't use it often.