On 6/6/2022 at 10:16 AM, pmb said:

2) Administration.

Every one of these sims has its own keystrokes, settings, home-cockpit support addons and/or VR management to startup, forums to follow and, yes, issues which you have to cope with. I know my MSFS startup workflow from sleep, but not the other ones anymore. I already have difficulty to closely follow MSFS fora - do I want to digest four times that amount of information?

I think this has been the main point for me not to use more than one sim. Just keeping up with one sim and dealing with it’s intricacies as well as tuning for best performance is more than enough to handle. 

1 minute ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Fair enough. It seems as though there are also MSFS users that are either current or ex P3D users but have never used XP in any meaningful way, but still make it their mission to hammer away at how pathetic it is.

Don't have to use XP to know how pathetic it is. I have two friends that have XP ( only one now, because one switched to MSFS) And I have flown it on their PCs and I hated it. Looks like it is 10 years behind MSFS, and VFR in that sim is a joke. I don't get on the XP forum, however, and start bashing it, like some on that forum do here. 

I use all 4 sims (big 3 + Condor) and they ALL have their strong points and inadequacies and irritations.

22 minutes ago, jcomm said:

And, actually this one in particular commented on how better the Zibo felt compared to the PMDG, for various reasons related to flight dynamics... but not only ...

- like in --> HERE <--

- or in --> HERE <--  or --> HERE <--

His final comments on both start here: https://youtu.be/oq_X6I8DiDU?t=16257

Some excerpts:
- "i like both of them"
- "i was blown away by the pmdg, really surprised how well it handled"
- "flying the zibo, oh that's why i like this model and flying in xp11"
- "pmdg has more in-depth systems modelling"
- "zibo handling on take-off/landing and ground taxiing is better" <--- this is one known area of MSFS i.e. ground physics that will be seeing improvements >= SU10
- "would I recommend the pmdg 737, 100%... would I recommend the zibo, this is still my favorite"

Edited June 7, 20224 yr by lwt1971

20 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

XPl11 autogen is landclass based.  Without resorting to tools like Ortho2XP and W2XP buildings are somewhat randomly placed as is vegetation.  Autogen buildings are placed in rectangular 'plots of land' that are stacked around the road network.   Its a "plausible" world, but doesn't resemble the real thing.  And it also doesnt take long to see the repetition in the process.  As I've said before, I spent a huge amount of time working on scenery for XP11 - this is spoken from personal experience.  I still hold a place in my heart for XP - spent many hours in VR flying over the areas I had worked hard to recreate and had a great time doing it.  But day one in MSFS showed me what a true world recreation could really be and I havent looked back.

Agreed. Maintaining all the orthos, freeware and payware regional scenery packs, VFR addons, as well as autogen packs eventually became quite exhausting. I probably spent more time managing scenery than flying. Which is why I probable won’t go back even with XP12.

Maybe the OP should change the thread title since this has turned into a MSFS vs other sims discussion? 😉

2 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Don't have to use XP to know how pathetic it is. I have two friends that have XP ( only one now, because one switched to MSFS) And I have flown it on their PCs and I hated it. Looks like it is 10 years behind MSFS, and VFR in that sim is a joke. I don't get on the XP forum, however, and start bashing it, like some on that forum do here. 

Last few comments are very interesting. You guys are more familiar with who is who on the various forums. The fact that XP users come here to inflame MSFS threads tells you that deep down inside they know MSFS is leading the way and is the current future for flight simulation.

7 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Maybe the OP should change the thread title since this has turned into a MSFS vs other sims discussion? 😉

Lol, well hopefully as iniBuilds keeps saying they will announce the A310 for MSFS soon ™️, then a proper new thread for that can be started 🙂

But jokes aside, this thread is about iniBuilds focusing on MSFS given the market conditions, and given their past history of products for XP guess that's why the XP topics got dragged into this.

Edited June 7, 20224 yr by lwt1971

24 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Fair enough. It seems as though there are also MSFS users that are either current or ex P3D users but have never used XP in any meaningful way, but still make it their mission to hammer away at how pathetic it is.

Unfortunately that's true. Blaming others for what they do themselves is no good conduct.

After I "discoverd" the X-Plane forum and looked also into there, geez ... a lot of threads were derailed because of ... I leave it to the fantasy of the readers. But I haven't seen any X-Plane user insulting the "others" to be "the most pathetic person in this forum", or "fanbo.sm showing their sh.t" as I was insulted in this thread (only because I said something about X-Plane and I am still also an MSFS user ...).
 

Edited June 7, 20224 yr by flying_carpet

4 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Unfortunately that's true. Blaming others for what they do themselves is no good conduct.

After I "discoverd" the X-Plane forum and looked also into there, geez ... a lot of threads were derailed because of ... I leave it to the fantasy of the readers. But I haven't seen any X-Plane user insulting the "others" to be "the most pathetic person in this forum", or "fanbo.sm showing their sh.t" as I was insulted in this thread (only because I said something about X-Plane and I am still also an MSFS user ...).
 

I was a regular lurker, then eventually a contributor on the XP forums for years before the release of MSFS. The last few months before August 2020 the forum was on fire. It was true mayhem, completely uncivilized and utter chaos. New forum users evangelizing about how AWESOME MSFS would be, predicting the sudden demise of other sims including XP and of course the XP hardcore users down in the trenches defending "their" sim. At times it could be entertaining, but most of the time it was rather unbearable. 

Anyway, OT I think the prospect of iniBuilds increasing their focus on MSFS is very promising. At the same time I'd love for Aerobask (miss the Lancair Legacy!!) and Hot Start to look into developing for MSFS, although I guess that doesn't seem likely at the moment. 

I'm running a bit low on fuel on my Kodiak which has been in a holding pattern over Glascow for about an hour while I've been on this thread. So I'll go attend to that 🙂

Edited June 7, 20224 yr by Cpt_Piett

28 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Maybe the OP should change the thread title since this has turned into a MSFS vs other sims discussion? 😉

Well, I want to get back to discussion of iniBuilds prioritizing MSFS.  Unfortunately, there is a certain XP poster (who doesn't use MSFS), who follows me around in the MSFS forums here and constantly tags me with @, and gets into very nasty exchanges with me, here in the MFS forum.

Like, I get it if I am in the XP forum, I say something people don't like, and they jump on me in the XP forum. But this certain poster keeps trying to draw me into discussions, here in the MSFS forum, and I can't even continue the conversation here in the MSFS forums, even in my own thread.  I have blocked this user already last year, and I have tried very hard to ignore this user.  But this user does not give up, and keeps getting involved in the threads I post, and trying to draw me into discussions.

Feels really weird when I stop posting in my own threads, because I can't stand this specific XP user.

2 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I was a regular lurker, then eventually a contributor on the XP forums for years before the release of MSFS. The last few months before August 2020 the forum was on fire. It was true mayhem, completely uncivilized and utter chaos. New forum users evangelizing about how AWESOME MSFS would be, predicting the sudden demise of other sims including XP and of course the XP hardcore users down in the trenches defending "their" sim. At times it could be entertaining, but most of the time it was rather unbearable. 

This is my complaint too.  There is a double standard here at AVSIM. Seems like some of the primarily XP users who don't use MSFS, can come here in the MSFS forum and be uncivil. But if you try to do that in the XP forum, you will probably get banned. It's not very fair, IMO.

On 6/6/2022 at 4:16 PM, jbdbow1970 said:

Yet you up start a thread like this to lure some of their loyal/outspoken over here to post in the first place.

No.  I am honestly interested in iniBuild's move to MSFS.  They are a big developer and this is big news, if iniBuilds is shifting all their resources to MSFS.

If we can't talk about an established and well known developer like iniBuilds, focusing on MSFS and making MSFS their primary platform, what can we talk about? This is big news for MSFS, IMO, but if we can't talk about it here in the "MSFS" forums, then we are self censoring ourselves.

Now if the XP posters who don't use MSFS, can come here to the MSFS forum and stay civil, then I don't mind discussing with them too.  It's when they become uncivil, that it makes it very difficult to discuss anything. FYI, I went silent for a while in this thread because of a specific XP poster who doesn't use MSFS, who keeps trying to draw me into arguments and nasty, uncivil, discussions.  I can't even post in my own thread anymore because I don't want to start a flame war.

I would only hope the posters that primary use XP, can come here and stay civil. Then no threads can be locked, and we can all discuss things in an interesting and civil way.

PS. The first few pages of this thread were civil and there was productive discussion.

Edited June 7, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

I have been primarily an XP user for the last few years (since P3D v3 if I remember correctly) and am excited to see the changes in XP12.  I have been thoroughly enjoying MSFS as of late though; especially the last few weeks as may be understandable for an airliner geek.

I will layout a massive MSFS welcome mat for inibuild's A300 series.

24 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

This is my complaint too.  There is a double standard here at AVSIM. Seems like some of the primarily XP users who don't use MSFS, can come here in the MSFS forum and be uncivil. But if you try to do that in the XP forum, you will probably get banned. It's not very fair, IMO.

Well ... it's always "the others" who are evil, right? Oneself ... never ...

At the risk of being designeted as a nest-fouler: we have whipper-ins in this forum as well ...

Edited June 7, 20224 yr by flying_carpet

3 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Well ... it's always "the others" who are evil, right? Oneself ... never ...

Well, you do understand this is the MSFS forums, right?  That we will be more critical of other simulators, while praising MSFS, right?

If you want to belittle MSFS while praising XP, you are free to go to the XP forums to create a thread to do that. Nobody is stopping you.  But if you think that you can use the same tone here in the MSFS forums, expect pushback from MSFS users.  

Edited June 7, 20224 yr by abrams_tank