12 minutes ago, gb09f said:

It's hubris like this that drives me away from payware aircraft and towards community projects. 

What do you mean by hubris? (I mean I know the word, but what has it to do with this right here?)

What does "officially" mean? Did they publish any statement? There's nothing on their forums.

Randazzo for President!

 

Edited June 10, 20223 yr by turbomax

What’s wrong with PMDG enforcing their IP rights?  Besides, modder can ask for their permission. 
 

the usual kast of karacters never fail to chime in on creepy personal dev bashing, as on cue. 

Yeah, there's obviously more to this.  This community can find (or manufacture) drama more efficiently than anyone or anything I've ever seen. 

Witness the discussion on the PMDG forum right now, about a mod author that asked for and received permission for texture edits, and then made his (excellent) mod available at .to where it's still up with no issues.

30 minutes ago, kdfw__ said:

What’s wrong with PMDG enforcing their IP rights?

which IP right exactly was violated? which law forbids hobbyists to modify parts of a game and release it for free to the public? if RSR wants to change the law, he should have become governor, not pilot. people have changed music, paintings, stories and other cultural creations with no financial benefit/interest and released to the public before. how many cloud texture mods, aircraft repaints, scenery enhancements/modification, aircraft.cfg improvements etc. lawyers do we need? people have even tried to finish real pieces of art, unfinished operas/symphonies like from Mozart et al. and given back to the community, with no financial interests/benefits whatsoever. how dare they!

Edited June 10, 20223 yr by turbomax

10 minutes ago, kdfw__ said:

What’s wrong with PMDG enforcing their IP rights?  Besides, modder can ask for their permission. 
 

the usual kast of karacters never fail to chime in on creepy personal dev bashing, as on cue. 

Yes. The community (rightfully) gets up in arms if a freeware aircraft painter’s textures are appropriated in another aircraft painters work - even if the derivative paint is itself freeware. But if someone extracts textures from a payware product (without permission) modifies them and posts them elsewhere that is perfectly OK? And if the owner of the original artwork objects, he is vilified? 

Hardly surprising - I think they took a similar stance for the 777 or the 747 many years ago.

One thing I know for sure, is that Reddit can be a very dramatic place. I've seen more than once that they jump to conclusions. I've even seen they goes against companies that take down mods that uses original content. This isn't just Reddit though, it's more of an internet thing.

While it wouldn't surprise me if PMDG did something stupid, I think it would be wise to hold off from the conclusions. 

27 minutes ago, turbomax said:

which IP right exactly was violated? which law forbids hobbyists to modify parts of a game and release it for free to the public? if RSR wants to change the law, he should have become governor, not pilot. people have changed music, paintings, stories and other cultural creations with no financial benefit/interest and released to the public before. how many cloud texture mods, aircraft repaints, scenery enhancements/modification, aircraft.cfg improvements etc. lawyers do we need? people have even tried to finish real pieces of art, unfinished operas/symphonies like from Mozart et al. and given back to the community, with no financial interests/benefits whatsoever. how dare they!

Probably best to review your knowledge on IP rights. The copyright owner can choose to assert or not assert the right.  just because the modder isn’t commercially benefiting is of no concern. Can you use a Beatles song in your innocent cat video you upload to YouTube?  Give it a try. 

one can mod whatever for their own personal use but if the IP owner asserts his/her rights, one cannot publish it on .to.   Sorry. 

In fairness to PMDG, failure to enforce its rights under the copyright laws can result in a copyright holder losing their protection rights under those law.  That is why companies vigorously enforce the copyrights.  Even mods seen as beneficial to the community can result in PMDG losing their rights under the law if they don't enforce them.

You might recall 15 years ago, all of the American Airlines liveries suddenly disappearing from the flight simulator world because American enforced their copyright protections against developers and livery makers who used the American livery without permission.  American doesn't care about the flight simulator community.  They do care about losing their rights to protect their intellectual property including their logos from the market in general. 

I don't see anything wrong here.  It's a chance any mod maker without authorization takes.

There was nothing wrong in PMDG or RSR did.  

Rich Boll

 

1 hour ago, Stearmandriver said:

Yeah, there's obviously more to this.  This community can find (or manufacture) drama more efficiently than anyone or anything I've ever seen. 

Witness the discussion on the PMDG forum right now, about a mod author that asked for and received permission for texture edits, and then made his (excellent) mod available at .to where it's still up with no issues.

I looked for this and couldn't find any trace. Could you provide a link to the files or the discussion?

Thanks

Just to be sure, I checked the EULA distributed with the PMDG 737 for MSFS. Here's a direct quote

Quote

If you create a freeware or commercial product (except free liveries) that modifies any piece of this product including artwork graphics, configuration files, sound files, ini files, binary files or any other parts of the product as created by PMDG Simulations, LLC. you are obligated to allow PMDG Simulations, LLC. to quality-check your application for unintended consequences in the operation of this software prior to making it generally available to the public.

Those of us who purchased this product have accepted the EULA. To me at least, it sounds like PMDG is being quite reasonable in agreeing to quality check mods prior to public release. I'm not sure what else anyone wants. If folks don't like an EULA they are fully within their rights not to purchase the product, and that goes for a lot more than some flight sim addon.

 

Oh well, either way this mod is awesome and most of us who prefer it over the default 737 cockpit textures have already grabbed it!

RIP great texture mod, you will live on offline on our hard drives forever!😛

https://flightsim.to/file/32750/pmdg-737-used-texture-effect

 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, RichieFly said:

I looked for this and couldn't find any trace. Could you provide a link to the files or the discussion?

Thanks

This was RSR’s response to someone who recently asked about modding textures and distributing the mod. The key is asking permission before “just doing it”

”Now modding itself is not a terrible thing. If you mode something in a manner that you think others might enjoy- we simply ask that you reach out to us and ask our permission before you go uploading it places. Most of the time we are okay with it- but we need a chance to be sure it doesn't have unintended consequences you may not have considered, and also need to be sure it isn't outside of compliance with our license agreement with Boeing.”

 

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/196085-pmdg-eula-and-modding-or-tampering-with-files

 

Edited June 10, 20223 yr by JRBarrett