Please vote for historic weather

[jrw4 624]

Given the now years long struggle that we have all observed Asobo having with producing a reliable, reasonably accurate weather system for MSFS, I can't even begin to imagine how long it would require for them to create one that is similarly reliable and accurate based on a huge historical database, and how much disarray it would cause in the interim. I'm totally in favor of historical weather and totally opposed to its being implemented at this juncture in the development of this outstanding desktop flight simulator.

Or maybe it's the other way around. I don't know anymore. 😉

Have a great day everyone.

[mrueedi 702]

1 hour ago, guenseli said:

The crosswind example was just ONE to make it easy to comprehend, because here are several people who have not the slightest idea why someone could need HW.

It was not easy to comprehend, why you need HW to train cross wind flights. Because what you actually want for that is a reproducable cross wind setting. Hence my lengthy elaboration that most use cases for HW actually ask for ways to specify a weather preset (the weather follows the imagination). Why should HW be better to train cross wind flights than just setting a crosswind in the preset?

I can agree, that live weather as is provides the wrong weather vs. daytime and that the dynamic part of live weather is not covered well in the presets. Having the live weather automatically synced with reality for the last 24 hours would cover the first and having the possibility to configure dynamic presets would cover the second. That would be a lot easier than full blown HW.

[Tuskin38 6,526]

4 hours ago, Juliet Alpha said:

Dealing with the MSFS target audience...

The target audience is everyone.

[ConstVoid 110]

2 hours ago, guenseli said:

No, they recieve weather from a database now and historic weather recieves its data also from a database. Why should the database of the psat be different to the sim or addons as the current database. With Active Sky, you haven't also any difference if you fly current live time or fly in the past. Same database.

so, no this is completely wrong to say it has any impact on the sim on or any addon.

We're not talking about Active Sky, we're talking about a possible implementation of historic weather by Microsoft / Asobo, which would probably be based somehow on data from MeteoBlue, which is already heavily massaged by Asobo to produce the in-sim weather.

Anyway, snce there are so many hypotheticals involved, I think we'll just agree to disagree on this.

[Noel 4,503]

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’ll leave it at that.

Yep, great idea.

[guenseli 1,591]

19 minutes ago, ConstVoid said:

We're not talking about Active Sky

I do also not talk about Active Sky as you mean it, do not misinterpret me!

To show current weather in the sim, MSFS uses a database (from meteoblue). If you save that current database of today, you have a snapshot from todays weather. Call it Database A.

Now start the sim the day after, you will also get data from a weather database, call it Database B

what should be the difference between database A, database B?
(btw, go over to MeteoBlue, you can already see historical weather there.)

 

Remember, the "argument" was: "including it will have a major impact on the sim".
My arguement against is, that it doesn't matter if you load a weather database from today or from yesterday or from one year ago.

I referred to Active Sky as example, as they have used a similar method of simply saving the days databases and it doesn't matter to any addon or the sim, which database you use.

 

I said, I leave this discussion. This is just to prevent that I get my words twisted in my mouth from people who try to misinterpret things - intentional or not.

[The Flight Level 2,114]

@guenseli I am under the impression that the folks here on AVSim represent a small percentage of the users flying with MSFS. Likely, the majority here take this hobby seriously. I am guessing that the average simmer has not heard of HW or those who have heard of HW are not aware of the fine details and excellent reasons that many users in this thread have described.

I think for HW to move up on the priority list, you would need to campaign on every social media platform possible and educate people how HW would bring the flight simulation experience closer to the real thing for those wishing to fly in a different part of the world at a set time.

Of course, HW is only as good as the weather system it utilizes. The value of HW is diminished if the current weather system is not accurate.

As you know, people on AVSim are pretty set in their ways! Thanks for the awareness to  historical weather! I will watch the progress!

[abrams_tank 7,425]

6 hours ago, Juliet Alpha said:

Dealing with the MSFS target audience...

So you are primarily a P3D user, right? I see you mainly posting in the P3D forums, so I assume you are primarily a P3D user.

Because if you are also an MSFS user, you come across as pretty word not allowed when you make statements like this.  The target audience is actually the hard core flight simmers.  That is, the people that frequent Avsim.  This is why the MSFS team hired Working Title, who has just made the most advanced default G1000 for a home market flight simulator. Casual flight simmers don't need anything near as advanced as the current G1000 in MSFS.  And the MSFS team also hired Andrey (An.Petrovich) Solomykin from IL-2 Sturmovik, to fine tune the flight model for MSFS further - this is another example that MSFS is targeting the hard core flight simmers.

But even among Avsim users, you can see many Avsim users that don't put historical weather as a high priority.  And the wishlist item for historical weather still isn't a top 10 voted wishlist item yet. The fact is, even among many hard core flight simmers, historical weather is not a priority.

So please don't make word not allowed statements like this. The target audience for MSFS is the hard core flight simmer market. But just because you value historical weather, doesn't mean all other hard core flight simmers value historical weather.

[abrams_tank 7,425]

52 minutes ago, Doering said:

@guenseli I am under the impression that the folks here on AVSim represent a small percentage of the users flying with MSFS. Likely, the majority here take this hobby seriously. I am guessing that the average simmer has not heard of HW or those who have heard of HW are not aware of the fine details and excellent reasons that many users in this thread have described.

IMO, the most vocal people and the ones most likely to go out of their way to vote, are the hard core flight simmers.  Also, most of the casual flight simmers have probably gotten bored of MSFS at this point.

When I go to the wishlist threads and the Dev Q&A threads and see what is being upvoted to the top, and also when I check the comments in the wishlist threads and the Dev Q&A threads, it's usually the most fervent flight simmers that post and vote in those threads. I think most casual flight simmers can't be bothered and they don't really care in the first place. At least when I go into the wishlist and Dev Q&A threads, I rarely see that many casual flight simmers posting in those threads.  It's almost always the hard core flight simmers posting in those threads, and voting on the topics.

Just check a few of the top voted Wishlist items within the the top 10 most voted Wishlist items:

- Implement weather and terrain API’s for aircraft developers to implement accurate radar, predictive windshear, EGPWS, and METAR/wind uplink
- Improve AI Traffic at Airports and in The Air
- Open up the weather system to 3rd party devs
- Scenery Gateway System
- Enhanced API to access all aircraft state and trigger all cockpit functions

Those wishlist threads were started and voted by the hard core flight simmers. Like I said, the casual flight simmers either quit using MSFS at this point, or they they don't really care.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by abrams_tank

[Cpt_Piett 4,678]

12 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

I think it has been made clear why many simmers need historical weather for their simming experience to be more immersive. 

Others don't need it at all for their way of simming.

Some don't even bother trying to understand the concept of historical weather at all.

All that is fine. We all use the sim in different ways. 

I appreciate 100% why some would like a historic weather implementation. It makes sense and many here in this thread have made compelling arguments. @guenseli I don't think you should stop participating in this thread - but you have to do what is the best thing for you of course. 

What irks me though is when people make claims that the sim should be used in a certain way. I found it a bit disappointing when Ray expressed surprise that Noel was not using the sim in a way that was accurate enough. Perhaps I misinterpreted though. 

After the release of FSLTL I tend to fly with real time and real weather all the time now. Which means I rarely get to do any flying in Europe where I live, as I don't fancy night flying that much. Instead I fly in North America after work. 

I don't think I would use historical weather that much even if it was an option. But hey, that's just me and the way I use the sim at the moment. 

I hope this makes sense. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Cpt_Piett

[lwt1971 7,418]

Yes yes most of us get the reasons for why one would want historical weather, but there are those who feel it's lower priority than other features that need attention from MS/Asobo. And this does not make those folks "lesser simmers" or ones who don't "prioritize weather" etc etc. These are silly tropes and talking points.. if historical weather is a must-have, have at it with P3D and whatever add-on that gives it.  If and when MS/Asobo provides historical weather then that is goodness, but that is not the be all and end all for a compelling simulation experience. There are more important things I prefer MS/Asobo to focus on (aside: assuming historical weather is even doable given the client/server architecture of the sim, and assuming no legal issues with Meteoblue). Regardless, they do have a voting system which they consider as one input into how they prioritize their development work, so let the masses speak and either it gets done, or not... not the end of the world 🙂
 

Edited October 27, 2022 by lwt1971

[guenseli 1,591]

3 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

but there are those who feel it's lower priority than other features that need attention from MS/Asobo. And this does not make those folks "lesser simmers" or ones who don't "prioritize weather" etc etc.

 

You are right and things cooked a bit too hot here, I don't know why.

This is not aimed at you, just for everyone to be clear:

1. This thread is just about to get that feature to the attention of Asobo (by the silly voting sysem)!
2. I never (and as far as I can see nobody else) said, that HW should be top priority!
3. This thread does not state, that HW is the most important missing item in the sim, there are more important ones (however on my personal priority list it is very high)
4. This thread is not about to convince anybody to use HW (see point #1)
5. Some had the legitimate question why some need HW, the answers have been given (but see point #4)
6. Any discussion if HW is useful or not does not really make sense, simply use it or not if it makes sense or not to you

 

so, I hope this completely unnecessary but unfortunately typical derailing discussion could be ended now 🙄
 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,961]

3 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

What irks me though is when people make claims that the sim should be used in a certain way. I found it a bit disappointing when Ray expressed surprise that Noel was not using the sim in a way that was accurate enough. Perhaps I misinterpreted though. 

I never said Noel should use the sim in a certain way. You certainly misinterpreted.