Dark Cockpits

[Cpt_Piett 4,641]

3 minutes ago, Roy Warren said:

Using the Studio drivers and G-Force Experience I have brightened up my cockpit like to photo in this thread, but the external view is all washed out.

Yeah I think tuning this with GFE would be tricky as it affects the whole image. I've tuned shadows, midtones and highlights with ReShade, but that's quite a bit of effort for just brightening up the cockpit. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Cpt_Piett

[G550flyer 1,013]

8 hours ago, AnkH said:

That is a typical case of MS/Asobo not really understanding the wishes of the community: it was a very much upvoted wish on the wishlist that they should reduce the eye adaptation effect and what they do? Almost completely eliminating it... *facepalm*

BTW: this is also another example letting me wonder if they still continue to NOT test their updates. Don't tell me that it takes 5 Minutes to instantly realize that something is wrong now with the cockpit illumination/darkness if you fire up your updated sim for a single time only. No idea how such things can slip through, other than it was fully intentional, then we are back to the upper statement.

I see a lot of posts like this and this is not directed at you, but it's an overall insight post. I am not 100% sure of Asobo's processes, but I can pass some basic info on why you may be seeing what you described. I will pass on my product management perspective.

Whether you are using a waterfall approach or the more suitable agile approach, you will work through development utilizing a backlog. All of your main development items and found defects will end up in the backlog. You will build your development time boxes groom in your backlog items based on the team's capacity and velocity. At the strategy level, you will estimate each item's required level of effort and value. From there, you will plan and schedule your items based on effort, value and the team's capacity/velocity. For example, an item has a high value because it gets your company as first to market. You make a foot hold and a potential to make a lot of money being first to market. You focus on items that require a lot of effort first. It's better to start the hard items first at the beginning of a time box vs starting them near the end of a time box. You run the risk of not being able to deliver on time and having to face the stakeholder(s). 

Now, testing may fall at the end of a time box or it could be constantly done through out the time box. Either way, testing is time boxed. This means you will only be able to test so many items based on the development cadence. Normally, testing is mainly focused on the items that are groomed and added to the team's backlog. The testing will be based on the acceptance criteria of those items. You will also perform some level of regression and exploratory testing depending on your time box. Lets talk defects for a moment.

Defects will be those unforeseen issues that will popup through out your time boxes. As they occur, they will be created and make their way into the backlog. Once in the backlog, they will be analyzed for required effort and value along with the main development items. It will also be decided how that defect will be resolved(cost plus effort). A defect's value will be based on it's impact. A defect that prevents everyone from using the software will have a high value and must be fixed. A defect that impacts 10% of the users, but does not stop the use of the software will have a lower value. Lets compare that to my real world flying. Every blue moon I will have a APU generator failure or total APU failure. I will need a power cart and possibly an air cart for starting and AC. I have to be mindful of the airports I visit to ensure they have those services, which will cost me money. My long range routing will have to be considered in regard to ETOPs like operations. But my trip has a low impact from this defect, so we will not be fixed it until we get home. Now, if I power up and my emergency power has failed or my emergency generator fails to test after start, that's a show stopping defect and it needs to be fixed before we can continue.  

Lets look back at Asobo. They appear to be working in an agile fashion. There are two tracks that you will follow. One, you are developing software for a owner and they will make the decisions on what items and defects will be worked based on your advice. The other track, you own the software, make all the decisions and prioritize items throughout your time boxes. In scaled agile, we have a release train that runs through out the time boxes. Your job is to keep that train moving on pace, it should never stop or change speeds. At times, you may find that some items are completed earlier and frees up capacity allowing a team to take on more items in a time box. This is where you can feed in some defects or a items with low effort.

Hopefully, this gives some insight to those who may feel that testing is not being done or the developer does not care. What you are most likely seeing is what I have described. because a defect is identified, you don't start work on it right away. It all depends on the value and effort it takes to correct the defect. That effort and value is rack, stacked and prioritized against the main development items. You can't focus 100% on defects because they don't make profit as you correct them. In fact, they cost you capacity and time. If you are not developing, you are not out pacing the competition. If you focus 100% on development, you are not making the product any better or maintaining your customer base. This is why you maintain a balance of both that is geared towards development.            

I tell a lot of people that agile is not faster, it's more efficient. You are basically breaking your development down into manageable chunks inside time boxes so that you can easily deliver on time. That's the whole concept and why things may appear slow. Looking back after the insight, you will notice that Asobo gives you two things when they pass on their updates. You are getting their release train schedule and their defect backlog. They only thing that you are not seeing is the prioritization of dev items and defects that occur between time boxes.  

Here's something that caught my eye. They pushed back SU10 and that is a no no. You don't stop the release train! That is a sign of an effort to appease the community. Personally, I would have not stopped the train. I would have limited SU10's items and groomed the other items into the following time boxes. Stopping the train throws off your schedule.

Edited September 26, 2022 by G550flyer
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[Noel 4,499]

58 minutes ago, hvw said:

Thanks, Noel. But I had to activate Freestyle in the settings of GFE to get to the filters, without doing so was a no-show of the filters. Then only to find out, that FS2020 was not being recognized by Freestyle. Oh well. Your cockpit looks great What about the outside environment? Is it negatively impacted by GFE's filters? 

As mentioned I find the Detail filter in particular does the best job of the ones I've played with as far as more selectively affecting cockpit over outside.  If you ever can get to them you will have these sliders to play w/ under Detail to try to increase interior v exterior lighting.  In the Brightness/Contrast filter you can further brighten the cockpit by decreasing Shadows, which I had not done in this shot:

 

 

[Noel 4,499]

4 minutes ago, G550flyer said:

That's the whole concept and why things may appear slow.

Thank you for that detailed insight!  I don't have it, the insight, but I suspected fully this is what we've been seeing.  People sometimes forget that this software has only been out 2.15y now, whereas XP is under the same development roof for over 25 years now.

[hvw 402]

37 minutes ago, Noel said:

As mentioned I find the Detail filter in particular does the best job of the ones I've played with as far as more selectively affecting cockpit over outside.  If you ever can get to them you will have these sliders to play w/ under Detail to try to increase interior v exterior lighting.  In the Brightness/Contrast filter you can further brighten the cockpit by decreasing Shadows, which I had not done in this shot:

 

 

Thanks much, Noel. I definitely will give it a try again. Hopefully this time around I will find the filters without Freestyle. 

 

Later: I've got it working, more or less 🙂 Now I am on my quest to find the interior and exterior lighting options in Detail..

Edited September 26, 2022 by hvw
Additional information

[G550flyer 1,013]

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

Thank you for that detailed insight!  I don't have it, the insight, but I suspected fully this is what we've been seeing.  People sometimes forget that this software has only been out 2.15y now, whereas XP is under the same development roof for over 25 years now.

Thanks Noel, you picked it right up! I didn't know the flow myself until I picked up some project and product management certs.

Rick

[threexgreen 3,139]

1 hour ago, Dillon said:

Have you ever been in a real cockpit that's enclosed in the daytime (non-canopy like a fighter jet)?  Go to a museum and sit in a cockpit of one of the aircraft sitting outside.  People have gotten so used to XPlane/FSX/P3D where darkening of the cockpit was never fully modeled in conjunction to the outside world.  In the Longitude in the real world (the same for many other aircraft) you have to turn the cockpit lighting on for operation (it has a black colored cockpit).  It all depends on how the sun is shinning on the plane.  Next time you take a flight on an airliner, if it's in the day look at what lights are turned on in the cockpit.

No lights are turned on in the cockpit if it's not a gloomy overcast day. In fact, you won't even see lights such as font lighting when it's turned on during a bright day. I won't deny that there may be aircraft with dark cockpit colors and tiny windows that may be quite dark, but your average airliner at the gate doesn't require panel lighting for the pilots to be able to see properly and read things. Unless it's a gray, gloomy day, if you can't read the gauges without lighting in the sim there's something not right.

[Pathfinder633 223]

Anyone found a solution to this?,  I can't see half my panel its so dark

[Cpt_Piett 4,641]

8 minutes ago, Pathfinder633 said:

Anyone found a solution to this?,  I can't see half my panel its so dark

As I mentioned above, the only thing I can think of is to tune shadows with ReShade. It's perfectly possible to brighten the cockpit with GFE as others have pointed out. But you'll end up brightening the whole image. 

[Pathfinder633 223]

5 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

As I mentioned above, the only thing I can think of is to tune shadows with ReShade. It's perfectly possible to brighten the cockpit with GFE as others have pointed out. But you'll end up brightening the whole image. 

Thanks I was hoping there would be something in the msfs config files that would just require a simple edit, Im not going to get into that reshade stuff, my PC isnt very powerful...no resources to spare really.

I cant understand how such an obvious thing wasnt picked up during the months long beta, its ridiculous

[Noel 4,499]

35 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

It's perfectly possible to brighten the cockpit with GFE as others have pointed out. But you'll end up brightening the whole image. 

Try the Detail filter in GFE it hardly increases the exterior but you do have to play w/ the sliders.  Intially I was dialing back shadows in another filter but find this is much better.

[G550flyer 1,013]

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

Try the Detail filter in GFE it hardly increases the exterior but you do have to play w/ the sliders.  Intially I was dialing back shadows in another filter but find this is much better.

I have to try that myself, but I have to install GFE🤔

[Dillon 2,197]

3 hours ago, Roy Warren said:

You're quoting apples vs oranges.  No, I have never been in a real cockpit and I don't intend to, but I do intend to be in a MSFS2020 cockpit and I can't use it if I can't see the gauges.

I have never used XPlane or P3D so I don't know what you're talking about there.

Using the Studio drivers and G-Force Experience I have brightened up my cockpit like to photo in this thread, but the external view is all washed out.

Roy

As others have said we may need a setting.  You can't please everything but if we had a setting all of us can adjust the look to our liking.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Dillon

[alexcolka 183]

I'm seeing an eye adaptation improvements, I don't use VR, so that fix is both modes? with and without VR? I can finally look my panel normal and the outside not so bright as before. If that was fixed, was a great fix.

[Roy Warren 426]

5 minutes ago, Dillon said:

As others have said we may need a setting.  You can't please everything but if we had a setting all of us can adjust look to our liking.

I agree with you there Dillon.  I'm not a geek and a lot of these post on Avsim are way over my head.  A simple "setting that we can adjust" would be great with me.

I move those sliders around on G-Force Experience, but I have no idea what I am doing.  I just hope that I will eventually hit on something that works, 

So a setting would be welcomed.

Roy