Landing 737 versus Fenix A 320

[Wise87 1,281]

Since the latest update and hot fix I still can’t get a decent landing in the Felix. I enjoyed landing back on .124 release. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Wise87

[rogerlimakilo 33]

...sometimes I get the feeling that rotations, and landings (no-elevator authority when trying to flare) are scripted (!) in the Fenix. 😕

Please tell me I'm delusional, please...

[Stearmandriver 2,304]

Landing rate is absolutely meaningless; it's a sim world contrivance.  No real world pilot will ever know their rate of descent at touchdown (not unless it's so bad they they later learn it during an event debrief from FOQA or FDR data.)  There's certainly nothing wrong with trying to grease it on as long as you remain with parameters for a safe landing, everyone does that. But actual landing rate? No idea lol. 

That said, I've never landed a Bus but have a lot of 737 time and a lot of Airbus jumpseat time while commuting, and I've never seen any behavior that makes it appear that a Bus would be more challenging to land than the 73.  I would think the opposite if anything.  We'd be talking slight differences though; as a rule, airliners are easy to fly. 

[ha5mvo 255]

I would rather take note of  approach stability at various gates (say, 1000, 500 and 30), touchdown inside the zone or distance off the centerline.

If one wishes to measure stability then one should probably take note of glideslope deviation , speed, VS and N1

Edited October 3, 2022 by ha5mvo

[mobiel 72]

8 hours ago, threegreen said:

A 737 is more prone to floating during flare than an A320, so it's normal to see a tendency towards firmer and earlier touchdowns with an A320 in comparison to a 737. Also, an ideal touchdown is at -100 to -300 fpm, so it isn't an issue to consistently touch down in that range but in fact the goal. A rate below -100 fpm tends to give up valuable runway length due to floating.

Also the Airbus needs a harder input on the main gear during landing to recognize the aircraft has landed correctly and to switch to the roll out mode.

Edited October 3, 2022 by mobiel

[MDFlier 2,031]

10 hours ago, Wise87 said:

Since the latest update and hot fix I still can’t get a decent landing in the Felix. I enjoyed landing back on .124 release. 

My 1st two flights after the last update resulted with the plane off the side of the runway. For giggles, I switched to a Fenix livery instead of the one I got from Flightsim.to. My next 2 landings were fine. Switched back to the 3rd party livery and 2 more good landings. Seems okay now. No idea what happened or why,,, 

[Wanthuyr Filho 83]

I haven't tried the A320 yet, but should be the norm to make good smooth landings, most RL landings are pretty smooth, and that doesn't mean floating.

Used to fly the FSLabs A320 on P3Dv4.5 for years in a row and I consider the latest version quite precise in this regard. Earlier versions had a kind of delay on the controls which used to make things complicated.

As for the 737, I've been flying the -800SFP lately and I feel like it has an excess of lift on short final. If one comes Vref+5 it's likely to float if one wants to make a smooth landing, even if cut the throttles earlier. Also I miss this heavy nose feeling on the 737 as the throttles come to idle, opposed to RL.

[ailchim 211]

21 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

That is about what I am getting, and I have Landing rates from years ago when I flew the PMDG 737 in PD3, and they are about 100+ fpm lower than I can get in the Fenix. This is the most difficult aircraft to consistently land for me, even after all the hotfix patches. It seems to me that the Fenix wants to level off when close to the runway, and I have to force it to descend, which results and erratic  flare point.  

The last part of this is what I'm getting: even if you are established on the glidepath, it seems to stop descending before the 1,000ft/3 mile point at which you might take manual control anyway, so you have to force it down to recover.  I can't speak on the PMDG 737 in MSFS but it was a lot more stable & predictable in P3D.  Perhaps I just haven't fully converted to Airbus yet but it sounds as though others ate having the same problem. 

[jjeffreys 12]

On 10/3/2022 at 9:49 AM, ailchim said:

The last part of this is what I'm getting: even if you are established on the glidepath, it seems to stop descending before the 1,000ft/3 mile point at which you might take manual control anyway, so you have to force it down to recover.  I can't speak on the PMDG 737 in MSFS but it was a lot more stable & predictable in P3D.  Perhaps I just haven't fully converted to Airbus yet but it sounds as though others ate having the same problem. 

I also notice the same thing with the PMDG 737. It seems like at a point on short final(seems to be around 500' - 1000' AGL), even though I am Vref+5 or whatever the wind component is and -700fpm on a stable approach, the plane tends to fight my control inputs and wants to increase or decrease my VS. This results in me either trimming  or adjusting power and a few seconds later I am now at -900 or -1000 and trying to correct again, but now I am below the GS and fighting to re-capture it. I know this is probably the winds changing but it seems to happen on every approach, it has gotten to a point now where I am second guessing my last few seconds and end up either floating or landing hard almost every time. It feels like there is a transition between winds aloft and winds at ground level and it just pops from one to the other, I have noticed a tail wind at 1000' then a sudden shift to a nose or cross wind (What is shown on the METAR) below that level.

[tweekz 2,165]

On 10/3/2022 at 1:09 AM, threegreen said:

A 737 is more prone to floating during flare than an A320

Ryanair pilots must have missed that point.

[WestAir 2,522]

8 minutes ago, tweekz said:

Ryanair pilots must have missed that point.

LMAO. Ryanair pilots don't float during flare because they don't flare. 😄

[threexgreen 3,142]

34 minutes ago, tweekz said:

Ryanair pilots must have missed that point.

As long as the technique is acceptable a 737 will go down quickly as well. It's just easier to inadvertently cause it to float. 

[Stearmandriver 2,304]

A sim landing in any airliner can be quite mechanical. In the 737, all you have to do is wipe the power to idle (at about 50ft in the PMDG) and pitch up about a half a degree. Then just hold that until touchdown. It'll be perfectly acceptable. 

You do the same in a level D sim (except power reduction is more like 30ft.)  Nice and mechanical, safe and easy.  

In the real plane, sure a landing can involve a bit more finesse when you're looking for a greaser, but this involves nuances that just don't exist in a sim, not even the level D sims and certainly not in a video game. 

[Bobsk8 12,753]

I used to park off to the side of KFLL Rwy 10, and watch the passengers Jets come in. You could park very near the fence back then. One day a DC8 came in , and when it touched down, it hit so hard I thought the wings were going to fall off. The tower told them to switch to ground, and when the aircraft opened their mic to respond, I could hear someone cursing in the cockpit.  😉

[SKEWR 364]

In the Fenix, I'm usually busy correcting and insuring (or trying to) that I land in the TDZ. Only really indication of a good landing I have is when the RAD ALT says "Five:. If I hear 5, then I'm pretty sure I did a good job. With the PMDG 737, I can consistently get a good landing. Maybe because I've simmed the 737 for years?