On 11/14/2022 at 10:52 AM, birdguy said:

Interesting NASA paper on why intelligent life has not visited us.

This implies that none of the documented UFO sightings are, in fact, aliens.

There we are, back on track.

Edited November 16, 20223 yr by dmwalker

I would say that there is a very high probability that life exists somewhere among the many thousands of other galaxies.  But I still think we must all remain agnostics on that speculation, as well as if "they" ever have, or will visit Earth...  

But more food for thought:  Stop and consider the complexity of higher life forms on Earth, and esp. the human brain - and it took millions of years to develop these complexities;  Many solar systems way out there are much older than this planet we live on...

There is a thing coming up with the James Webb that I say a few months back so I cannot remember all the details. Soon on the list of observations is a plan to look at an exo-planet that is thought to be in the Goldie Locks region of it star which is fairly high up on the list of Exoplanets though to be perhaps capable of supporting life and its not that far enough away that the James Webb could detect street light if they where there. If I remember correctly its 150 light years away from earth or something like that. The article said the artificial light produced by LEDS is unmistakable artificial.

My guess is that they'll point the James Webb at this planet and dark side of the planet will be dark as can be without even a hint of artificial light because there's no one their. Not even a snail. Because I don't believe that there is life anywhere else in the Universe except on earth.🤪

Edited November 17, 20223 yr by FBW737

14 hours ago, dmwalker said:

This implies that none of the documented UFO sightings are, in fact, aliens.

There we are, back on track.

 

It does suggest that. Who knows. One thing we do know is that the next report to Congress, due at the end of the week, will again tell us nothing. Probably another single frame of a minuscule dot. We are being played in my opinion. Go through the motions, do as little as possible, stall, but tell us nothing. 

13 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

I would say that there is a very high probability that life exists somewhere among the many thousands of other galaxies.  But I still think we must all remain agnostics on that speculation, as well as if "they" ever have, or will visit Earth...  

But more food for thought:  Stop and consider the complexity of higher life forms on Earth, and esp. the human brain - and it took millions of years to develop these complexities;  Many solar systems way out there are much older than this planet we live on...

 

Agree...

As I mentioned earlier, simple life appeared here as soon as the Earth cooled, but its taken literally billions of years for technological life to appear. Suggesting that maybe simple life is common but advanced technological life hard and rare or even non-existent in our galaxy. 

In the entire universe is a different preposition though because geometrically the universe appears to be flat, according to our best measurements, implying potentially infinite. And in an infinite universe, atoms can only rearrange themselves in a finite number of ways, so must repeat. Implying that you and me, all of us, our planet, and everything else in the universe is replicated an infinite number of times. Weird stuff. 

3 hours ago, FBW737 said:

There is a thing coming up with the James Webb that I say a few months back so I cannot remember all the details. Soon on the list of observations is a plan to look at an exo-planet that is thought to be in the Goldie Locks region of it star which is fairly high up on the list of Exoplanets though to be perhaps capable of supporting life and its not that far enough away that the James Webb could detect street light if they where there. If I remember correctly its 150 light years away from earth or something like that. The article said the artificial light produced by LEDS is unmistakable artificial.

My guess is that they'll point the James Webb at this planet and dark side of the planet will be dark as can be without even a hint of artificial light because there's no one their. Not even a snail. 🤪

 

It would be possible to detect certain types of LED light on a planet as close as Proxima B, as long as the light was limited to a frequency band that was one thousand times narrower than the light from the stellar band. So possible but I would say unlikely. Proxima is regarded as "Earthlike" but that doesn't mean what you think it does. It doesn't mean it has oceans, an atmosphere or an anything we regard as "Earthlike". In fact we don't even know if it has an atmosphere. Proxima Centauri is a star that generates hefty flares that could strip an atmosphere away.  

All "Earthlike" means is that Proxima B is a rocky planet like Earth, and a similar size and orbiting in the habitable zone. That doesn't stop it from having no atmosphere, being bombarded with EM from its parent star and being utterly barren rock. Its also the closest Exoplanet to Earth, 4.2 lightyears away. In terms of it having life its also a sample size of one, while there are an estimated 100 billion planets in our galaxy at least. 

 

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Because I don't believe that there is life anywhere else in the Universe except on earth.

 

And you base that belief on zero evidence that there's no life except on Earth. You are guessing and then believing your guess to be definitive. 🙄

 

 

 

Long, long ago, before any advanced technology had been developed on this planet a man appeared.  We don't really know where he came from but he is quoted of having said, "In my house are many mansions."  I wonder what he meant by that.  If he was a visitor from space could that mean the galaxy was his house or the universe was his house and the many mansions were inhabited planets?

Think about it.

Noel

 

1 hour ago, HiFlyer said:

"What if humanity is among the first spacefaring civilisations?"

Could be because the universe is too hot to live efficiently at this time. Instead alien life has chosen to aestivate until conditions cool, living far more effectively than life as we know it can manage.
https://www.universetoday.com/135900/maybe-aliens-arent-hiding-theyre-sleeping-waiting-universe-get-better/

Alternatively, the high prevalence of collapsing massive stars emitting long gamma ray bursts at nearby planets, makes the likelihood of anything more complicated that a single cell organism unlikely.
https://cosmicpursuits.com/2594/is-the-universe-too-dangerous-for-life/

Just two alternative fascinating theories as to why the Fermi paradox exists.

1 hour ago, F737MAX said:

Could be because the universe is too hot to live efficiently at this time. Instead alien life has chosen to aestivate until conditions cool, living far more effectively than life as we know it can manage.

How hot is "too hot"? If it is too hot just now, it would certainly have been too hot in the past so how could alien life have developed in the first place? The article specifically refers to "civilisations", which would imply an advanced state of development. Are we the only lifeforms in the galaxy who didn't need to aestivate?

12 hours ago, martin-w said:

And you base that belief on zero evidence

You're right, zero evidence that their is life anywhere else. There is a difference between Believe and Know and there is a difference between Evidence and Proof. I haven't said I know that there is life on earth and no where else. I know that there is life on Earth and believe there is no life anywhere else. I know there is life on earth because the Evidence literally Proves it. I have immediate knowledge of it. It is the object of my experience. And I don't believe there is life anywhere else because there is zero Evidence of it. It's never been the object of my experience, I have never meet or read about a credible witness who said that life else where in the universe was an immediate object of their experience. If I did I'd be inclined to believe them. Neither do I accept the proposition that 'there is one of something' constitutes evidence that there is another. As well as the concept, 'the same' we also have the concept of 'unique'. If there where no unique things then that concept would not exist. I also hold the position that a valid argument can be made that 'uniqueness' is far more ubiquitous than 'sameness'. I also don't believe that the Universe is infinite and grant that if it were that would constitute a mathematical proof that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Therefore when there is no evidence to the contrary it is completely valid to consider something unique. It doesn't mean it is unique but it's a perfectly valid position to believe it's unique until there is evidence to the contrary. In the absence of the item that is the same it is apropos to consider something unique. Questioning said items uniqueness is also perfectly valid. Insinuating that a person who takes the opposite position to you is a dullard is argument ad hominem which is a fallacy.

Edited November 17, 20223 yr by FBW737

52 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

How hot is "too hot"? If it is too hot just now, it would certainly have been too hot in the past so how could alien life have developed in the first place? The article specifically refers to "civilisations", which would imply an advanced state of development. Are we the only lifeforms in the galaxy who didn't need to aestivate?

If you watch the video posted by @HiFlyer on 'What if humanity is among the first spacefaring civilisations?', the narrator posits that humans have turned up 'early' in relative timescale terms.

There are 100 trillion years or so left before the last star in the universe burns itself out and 1 googol years before the universe reaches absolute zero throughout.
On that timescale, we are 'early' and may condemn ourselves to becoming extinct by living in the 'hot', 'inefficient' and 'dangerous' time of the universe.

In the previous 13 billion years that the universe has existed, other species *could* have evolved, eventually obtaining advanced knowledge and technological prowess, yet came to the conclusion that conditions aren't currently ready for maximising efficient living. Whereas on the contrary, Humans have not attained that level of progress and so are destined to exist during this turbulent period.

If we survive long enough, Humans in the future may develop the similar capabilities and follow the process of aestivation as other supposed advanced civilisations. Or we could decide to 'make a run for it' and maximise our potential during this (possibly) uncontested era and colonise wherever is feasible.
 

Here's why 'it's too hot now' is an interesting theory:

Quote

Over the next trillions of years, as it [the Universe] continues to expand and the formation of new stars slows, the background radiation will reduce to practically zero.
Under those conditions, Sandberg and Cirkovic explain, this kind of artificial life would get “tremendously more done.” Tremendous isn’t an understatement, either. The researchers calculate that by employing such a strategy, they could achieve up to 10³⁰ times more than if done today. That’s a 1 with 30 zeroes after it.

Source: A New Theory on Why We Haven’t Found Aliens Yet

Also: The universe is getting hot, hot, hot, a new study suggests

All highly speculative, therefore could be complete nonsense. Interesting, nonetheless.

4 hours ago, birdguy said:

he is quoted of having said, "In my house are many mansions."  I wonder what he meant by that. 

I don't think it means anything in English. How can a house have mansions? You would have to look at what was said in the original language.

30 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Humans in the future may develop the similar capabilities and follow the process of aestivation as other supposed advanced civilisations.

What would aestivation entail? It doesn't sound like something we humans would do.

A quote form that article: "Aliens do exist; they’re just all asleep."

Give me a brake!

This reminds of an interview I once saw with the late Nobel Laureate Kary Mullis where he said that real science is far to hard for most graduates of science. Most scientist exist so that universities can make money of tuition. 

Edited November 17, 20223 yr by FBW737