X-Plane 12 final

[bogdansrb 230]

I get poor performance with r6 too. The thing is that at some point probably on beta 14 they fixed it, but now it's back.

I would get 45FPS while taxiing but then when line up in the runway it drops to 20FPS. It's probably due to more objects being in the FOV, but still that's a big drop.

[efis007 885]

On 12/19/2022 at 3:14 AM, GoranM said:

So this begs the question.  Why do you continue to come here?

Because I have been flying with xplane since version 8, and have always had praise and respect for this simulator in its development years up to v11.
But respect for a product has nothing to do with the hype and nonsense that I occasionally read on this forum.
Whenever I notice defects in a product I do not hesitate to point them out.
Also XP10 and 11 had defects (especially regarding the environment) and since I'm an environment expert, I first highlighted them, and then corrected them with my "atmoXphere" addon.
So I have as much right as you .... indeed perhaps more than you .... to comment on Xplane on this forum, since I have always worked to improve it.

Just as I have the right to express my thoughts even if they are in contrast with the thoughts of some "blind fans" of Xplane.
When I wrote that it's silly to call XP12 "awesome" I was expressing an incontrovertible truth: XP12's antialiasing is terrible, so it's stupid to call it "awesome".
Currently XP12's antialiasing is the worst among all simulators out there, it's even worse than FS2004!
Therefore?
So if XP12 (with the worst AA) is called "awesome", how are we to call MSFS or FS2004 with the truly awesome AA?
Hyper Mega Extraordinary?

On 12/19/2022 at 3:14 AM, GoranM said:

why are you, and several others, trying to rile people up in this forum?

No dear friend, it's you and other "fans" who irritate the readers because more often than not you spread pure disinformation about Xplane.
Define "realistic" things that are NOT realistic but buggy.
You fans open absurd topics in which you advertise some features of XPlane and paint them as absolute novelties... for example volumetric clouds (they have existed for years in other products!), photometric lighting (ditto), 3d trees (ditto again) , ambient sounds (ditto again).
Everything we see today in XP12 has already been present in other games for a long time.

So dear "fans" I would advise you to be a little more realistic when you talk about this simulator and stop hyping it too much, because currently XP12 is not yet in a state where it can be "awesome", (it's still full of bugs) .
Call it "good", or "nice", and you will see that no one will come here to criticize your statements.
But as long as you fans continue to call a simulator with big bugs "awesome", bow your heads and accept the (fair) criticisms.

And if you think I'm writing these words because I'm a fan of MSFS, well you're very wrong.
I've also criticized MSFS (and defended XP11) and been made fun of by many of its fans.
Just like it happens here.
But you know what the funny thing is?
That I was right!
In the end even the most stubborn had to admit that I was right and my criticisms were founded truths.
Please read: 

 

[GoranM 3,772]

There's a way to convey your feelings about X-Plane and its shortcomings.  The way you're doing it, with your self entitlement...

24 minutes ago, efis007 said:

So I have as much right as you .... indeed perhaps more than you .... to comment on Xplane on this forum, since I have always worked to improve it.

Will not get a favorable reception.  

 

24 minutes ago, efis007 said:

Just as I have the right to express my thoughts even if they are in contrast with the thoughts of some "blind fans" of Xplane.

Blind fans?  Well, truth be told, I still haven't bought my polo shirt.  But as soon as one becomes available, I'll get right on it!

24 minutes ago, efis007 said:

When I wrote that it's silly to call XP12 "awesome" I was expressing an incontrovertible truth: XP12's antialiasing is terrible, so it's stupid to call it "awesome".

X-Plane 12 is awesome.  Revolutionary.  Photometric lighting.  PBR textures.  Dedicated Vulkan.  Brand new global weather.  Overhauled water physics.  The best X-Plane version by far.  And I'm proud to say I was part of the testing team since December of last year.  You can disagree if you want to.  But you won't change my opinion, nor the opinions of others who come here.  Just because you own X-Plane, doesn't absolve you from rebuttals from other people in here.  Nothing about you trumps anyone else's opinion.  No matter how important you think you might be, and no matter what you contributed to X-Plane.  Truth be told, I've been involved with X-Plane for 13 years, and I've never heard of you, or your contributions.  

If you want to offer constructive criticisms, then that's great.  But your current attitude is one of an entitled elitist, who thinks his opinion is more valid than everyone else's because you made content.  Might be a good idea to step back and check yourself.

As for the rest of your post, I don't really want to read it.  I'm watching an X-Plane stream and working on an update for an add on I made.  

Take care, "friend".

Edited December 20, 2022 by GoranM

[bogdansrb 230]

I can only agree with efis007. X-plane 12 is awesome only if you compare it with x-plane 10 or 11. Yes it has its strenghts like its flight dynamics and ground handling, which imo are unbeatable today, but anything else is mediocre. As I said in a previous post, x-plane suffered from the "best thing in its category" syndrome. If it wasn't for MSFS we probably wouldn't have seen xp12 as it is today, and Austin would have continued to disregard the features that xp12 has today. 

I think it could use more criticism, but given how it was received by die hard fans that continue to treat it as a religion, I think we should settle for a typical "good enough" experience.

Not to mention the way critics are simply excluded from the community. Since the early access beta was released I heard things like:

- poor performance: you should upgrade your hardware even if you can max out any other game on it

- real time weather doesn't work: do you really need it?

- lighting is broken: it's actually the way it's supposed to be

- scenery looks like a game from the 90s: it's not a scenery simulator

- continued mockery, deleted posts, bans and so on (I'm talking about the org forum)

[alexcolka 183]

8 hours ago, GoranM said:

AA is getting worked on.

Hi Goran, good the hear from you that AA is getting worked on and maybe you have more information on that than the vast majority here. I'm really counting on that because even with my good hardware that part is not so good for now for me (compared with XP11 for example).

Do you know if the blurry cockpit textures (my case but not by much) are being worked on too? 

[jelder 14]

Huge Xplane fan, and even though XP12 is currently not enjoyable to me (shimmering/flickering due to poor AA in VR), I feel great about investing my $60 into the future of XP.  It would be great for Ben to post a Blog about plans to improve AA as I agree with some of the posts above that this is one of the major shortcomings with the release.

Goran, I hope the update you are working on is to bring the TBM to XP12 as this remains one of the masterpieces for Xplane.

Happy Holidays to all.

 

 

[Sims Smith 303]

And so it begins.  Developers updating their crafted beer planes to XP 12 release version!

ToLiss in their FB Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/436900320058783/posts/1629113400837463/

in order to get you to enjoy our products in XP12.00 quicker, we have uploaded versions of the A319, A321 and A340-600 to the Skunkcrafts updater. The official releases will follow once we did the full acceptance test procedure and manual updates for each of the aircraft.

Most importantly, with these updates the aircraft now feature:

- A complete EFB with Avitab, Weight and Balance computer, TO and LDG performance calculation as well as interactive checklists

- Hoppie CPDLC support including AOC functions such as weather information requests and Predeparture clearances

- Lighting adapted to X-plane 12's latest lighting model

- Flight physics update to X-plane 12

For a more detailled list of features and bug fixes with this version, check out the posts in respective aircraft forum on https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/forum/391-toliss/

Merry Christmas and happy new Year from the ToLiss team!

 

[Bjoern 1,157]

Can't say I'm completely happy with 12.00, but as long as Laminar continues to roll out weekly or bi-monthly updates, the version numbering doesn't mean much.

[GoranM 3,772]

3 hours ago, alexcolka said:

Hi Goran, good the hear from you that AA is getting worked on and maybe you have more information on that than the vast majority here. I'm really counting on that because even with my good hardware that part is not so good for now for me (compared with XP11 for example).

Do you know if the blurry cockpit textures (my case but not by much) are being worked on too? 

The only thing I know about that is you’re getting blurry textures because you’re running out of VRAM.  Try reducing your render settings. X-Plane 12 is very GPU dependant. Unlike its predecessors. 

[MrBitstFlyer 3,882]

4 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

Yes it has its strenghts like its flight dynamics and ground handling, which imo are unbeatable today, but anything else is mediocre.

I gave up at this point. The sim experience I get is the complete opposite of mediocre.

[GoranM 3,772]

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

I can only agree with efis007. X-plane 12 is awesome only if you compare it with x-plane 10 or 11.

Obviously, this is your opinion, only.  The same analogy can be used for cars.  I think Audi make better cars than Mercedes.  A Mercedes lover will disagree and say what you said.  I've been involved with XP12 testing, like I said, since December of 2021.  I know everything that has gone into it.  Of course it has bugs.  But it's at the point now where it's stable enough for developers to start updating their add ons.

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

Yes it has its strenghts like its flight dynamics and ground handling, which imo are unbeatable today, but anything else is mediocre.

Then you are not clued in to what it has.  As a whole.  

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

If it wasn't for MSFS we probably wouldn't have seen xp12 as it is today, and Austin would have continued to disregard the features that xp12 has today. 

The XP12 you see today, was planned within a week of XP11 getting released.  Nothing about MSFS influenced the XP12 road map.  Point of fact, it was X-Plane that influenced some versions of MSFS.  X-Plane introduced PBR textures for XP11 (Before you say it, I know LR didn't invent PBR, and that PBR has been used in games far earlier).  X-Plane was the first flight sim to go 64bit.  P3D followed about a year later.  I've even seen forum posts accusing Laminar of copying MSFS with the default F-14.  I know the people who made the F-14 for X-Plane, and it was started in 2018.  I know this because I helped one of the developers with a Substance Painter workflow.

These are just a few things that LR did, prior to anyone else.  Make no mistake, X-Plane 12 is revolutionary.  Regardless what other peoples opinions on that are.  

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

I think it could use more criticism, but given how it was received by die hard fans that continue to treat it as a religion, I think we should settle for a typical "good enough" experience.

I keep seeing this comment.  X-Plane users treat it like a religion.  X-Plane "cultists". I'm not even sure what that means in the X-Plane community.  Is it because we're passionate about our choices?  If so, then It's no different to the DCS or MSFS community.  I see waaaay more passion in the MSFS forums.  You all love your chosen software.  However, if anything screams cultist, or people treating something like a religion, it's this and this.  And I haven't seen anything like it in the X-Plane forums.  Ever.  

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

Not to mention the way critics are simply excluded from the community.

That depends on your version of "critics".  I've forwarded criticisms I see on reddit and avsim to LR, constantly.  At least on a weekly basis.  It's when those criticisms take on the form of straight up bashing, is when it's not even worth it to ask for more details.  

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

poor performance: you should upgrade your hardware even if you can max out any other game on it

This is almost always down to incompatible plugins or outdated drivers.  @GCBraun , who I consider a fair person when it comes to criticism, even stated he's getting 150fps in the HS CL650.

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

real time weather doesn't work: do you really need it?

LR know about it, and they're doing something to fix it.  I'm under NDA, so I don't know how much I can share.

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

lighting is broken: it's actually the way it's supposed to be

X-Plane 12 uses photometric lighting with tonemapping. It's physics based lighting.  If you, or anyone else thinks it's broken, you'll need to come up with some hard evidence to show it.  Comparing it to MSFS is not hard evidence.  

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

scenery looks like a game from the 90s: it's not a scenery simulator

The wording in this won't get anyone to take you seriously.  I don't even need to bring up a visual comparison to prove how ridiculous this statement is.

13 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

continued mockery, deleted posts, bans and so on (I'm talking about the org forum)

The same thing goes on here when the rules of the forum are broken.  I have my own opinions on the org forum, but that isn't the issue here.

 

I've welcomed criticisms in the past, that I would happily forward to LR. Some of those have been looked at and fixed.  As long as they're given from people with a completely opposite attitude to efis.  And as long as they're given constructively.  Coming in here, throwing one's weight around, demanding they be listened to, and announcing they have made content for X-Plane, so their opinion counts more than others, will just get that person laughed at.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by GoranM

[blingthinger 649]

6 hours ago, efis007 said:

So if XP12 (with the worst AA) is called "awesome", how are we to call MSFS or FS2004 with the truly awesome AA?

That's putting words in someone's mouth. The sim overall is awesome. Nobody's claimed the AA is stellar. Only that it is being actively worked on. Ben's even mentioned TAA in the past. 

 

6 hours ago, efis007 said:

You fans open absurd topics in which you advertise some features of XPlane and paint them as absolute novelties... for example volumetric clouds (they have existed for years in other products!), photometric lighting (ditto), 3d trees (ditto again) , ambient sounds (ditto again).

You're correct. Volumetric clouds first appeared in XP11 Xenviro. If it didn't beat DCS, it was right there with it.

Photometric lighting? In a commercial sim like this it's the first I'm aware of. It's certainly the first that will be level-D compliant.

3D trees that are actual modeled branches and leaves that move realistically with the wind speed and direction? Pretty sure that's a first. 

Not sure I've ever heard anyone claim ambient sounds were a first in 12, though I've certainly publicly drooled over them in the past.

 

6 hours ago, efis007 said:

I would advise you

Advice noted and respectfully / entirely declined.

There's no reason to suspect that LR won't fix the various flaws (yes even regressions) in the near future. That includes the magenta (now black) issue that continues to plague you and other NV9xx card owners. Actually, I have no reason to believe that that isn't Nvidia's problem, so maybe it won't get fixed and LR will simply adjust their webpage? Though they haven't done that yet, so I'm still confident it will get fixed.

Did they rush to get this one out the door? Maybe so. I'm sure there were plenty of 'small indie business in a small market' considerations that went into that decision.

If anything it speaks to Austin's confidence that things will continue to get fixed. You know, because he's actively hiring devs to keep working on the sim...

[alexcolka 183]

40 minutes ago, GoranM said:

The only thing I know about that is you’re getting blurry textures because you’re running out of VRAM.  Try reducing your render settings. X-Plane 12 is very GPU dependant. Unlike its predecessors. 

Must be something else then, will look. I have RTX 3080ti with 12gb which should be enough. Many thanks!

[GoranM 3,772]

2 minutes ago, alexcolka said:

Must be something else then, will look. I have RTX 3080ti with 12gb which should be enough. Many thanks!

Unfortunately, other than that, I’m not sure. I’ll be happy to check into it some more for you. 

[karlz 37]

How is this version in VR?