Fenix A320 vs FsLabs

[WestAir 2,522]

15 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

I get that but from what I was reading you maybe could have referenced what Fenix are doing what are the sim limitations.

Oh I see what you mean. I agree that would have been a good idea.

[Fiorentoni 4,252]

44 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

So with the FSL A320, multiple failures isn’t simulated very well and the failures don’t interact very well with each other? If that is true, that is a huge weakness of the FSL A320, compared to the Fenix A320.

 

They don't interact in a realistic way in certain combinations, but it's hardly a "huge weakness". How many people fly with multiple failures?

[sonny147 579]

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

So with the FSL A320, multiple failures isn’t simulated very well and the failures don’t interact very well with each other? If that is true, that is a huge weakness of the FSL A320, compared to the Fenix A320.

 

FSL A320 doesn't have a weakness , its the zenith of Airliner AI flight simulation my friend , I know I flew it for 6 years. I also flew PMDG, QW , the dash 8 addon pretty much all of them , just my opinion but nothing came even close to the quality of FSL ( and no I dont work for them lol) 😉

the weakness  is P3D

Edited January 8, 2023 by sonny147
added

[Aamir 2,907]

7 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Hey Aamir, I know you also use(d) the Warthog Joystick when flying the Fenix. Did you use the "heavier sidestick" option with it? I know it's not technically dampened, but it's certainly one of the heavier desktop joysticks...

I personally use the lighter sidestick option, it's what a few of the type rated guys and gals on the test team recommended who all use Warthogs. 

[Aamir 2,907]

4 hours ago, WestAir said:

There's an extensive list on the reported bugs in their discord. Here's a short list of the things one beta team member has reported in one thread:

LIGHTING:

• Missing lights under the seat of the capt and f/o with the floor console switch
• RMP Capt doesn't behave correctly, LCD should show 8888.8 when on light test + MLS knob not lighting up on ACP
• RMP F/O doesn't behave correctly, LCD should show 8888.8 when on light test + MLS knob not lighting up on ACP
• RMP 3rd occupant doesn't behave correctly, LCD should show 8888.8 when on light test + MLS knob not lighting up on ACP
• ATC panel doesn't behave correctly, LCD should show 8888 when on light test
• Cockpit door panel, OPEN doesn't light up on light test
• Rudder LCD doesn't behave correctly, should show R+L superimposed and on the right 88
• Batteries LCD should show 88.8 during light test
• Overwings exits light not illuminating with EMER EXIT Light switch is set to on
• On ANN Light Test, all cockpit door panel should illuminate : Top - Mid - Bottom + Chan 1 - Chan 2

SYSTEMS / TEXTURES / DECALS:

• On 50VU, the APU test is clickable and has some lights working but it does not trigger the APU fire
• 1FD2 shown on PFD while FAC 1+2 are tripped. In this case, even if both FMGCs are not failed and correctly powered up, FDs should not be shown.
• FAC auto test sequence is not right. It should be 4 times FAULT blink then 2 sec later 1 blink and finally after 10-15 sec a final FAULT blink. (VIDEO: https://streamable.com/rv5ywu )
• Complete incorrect FD appearance on PFD.
• When a new or a FM is lost there should be a square around 1FD1 or 2FD2 or 1FD- etc etc
• Auto test sequence is not respected. The FMGC takes around 40-45 sec to power up and at the end of the test sequence, ATHR and correlated AP p/b should blink multiple times. Then triple click is heard. Then the related FD is shown if FD is pushed.(VIDEO: https://streamable.com/h0kugw )
• Missing BACK UP label on the secondary depressurization door panel (placed along the support not on the vu panel)
• EMERGENCY RAM AIR INLET FLAP (not confused with RAT) is not modeled. The flap does not physically open even when shown as open.
• The cockpit door should dim the entrance light as well as lower cabin speaker.
• Missing Ice Detection Probes (if option selected - ECAM Warning + c/b)
• AUTO LAND p/b not linked with correlated FWC (If FWC1 is tripped, AUTO should not light up (dimmer because the lower part is not separated) on Capt side and LAND should not light up on F/O side - and FWC2 is the other way) (VIDEO: https://streamable.com/wn10iu )
• External power misplacement : 108Vu should be on the left (aircraft direction) and external power on the right.
• Incorrect behavior of loop c/b and ENG Fire 1 & 2. Loop A on each engines are lighting odd lights pair (So column 1 and 3) while loop B are lighting even lights (So column 2 and 4) in the fire button. When pulling on the loop A or B and doing the test, it should not light up the correlated columns of lights. (VIDEO: https://streamable.com/auhg7q )
• Missing 1 RA antenna (3 on 4)
• Sounds and effects when changing AC ESS FEED missing (Relays and some contactors sounds + like heavy load bus change lights off during less then a sec). Sometimes it also put your TR in fault and you have to do a CFDS reset or via the p/b TR reset.
• Incorrect manual mode behavior ; DITCHING should overtake the MAN mode. (VIDEO: https://streamable.com/kc8eq2 )
• Starting with cold & dark config some c/b are tripped (ENG OIL PRESS & QTY - 4) + BRK TEMP DET UNIT + THS ACTR LSSD.
• Missing : TPIS option selected but no modelling of the sensor with the shielded harness on NLG
• Wrong FWC for Master Warning, it should be the opposite, MASTER dead on capt side if FWC 1 dead for both Master Caution and Warning
• Wrong timing for DMC, it should wait the self test before interchanging the displays
• Wrong behavior of TCAS. You simulate "TCAS CHANGE MODE" on PLAN mode but the TFC should not appear.
• DCDU without any ACARS service / ATSU should show NO DATA.
• F/O and CAPT ND TERR bugs (VIDEO: https://streamable.com/tqr4zz )
• ADIRs buses + reset doesn't work properly. With ADIRs 2 & 3 reset by the c/b there is no time delay when powering up +
• Missing sounds with VOR identification through RMP / ACP (VIDEO: https://streamable.com/xzc322 )
• incorrect behavior with RMP in NAV-ILS mode : bottom button should adjust not the one on top
• Missing sounds for IM - MM - OM beacons (VIDEO: https://streamable.com/efpjzn )

This is not an exhaustive list, it's just from one thread out of thousands. I doubt many A320 rated pilots would spot half of these problems; Many of these are maintenance personnel levels of inaccuracies and some aren't even simulated in competing products. The fact that this stuff is even in the discord and being looked at by the team is why I firmly believe Fenix is the right choice for anyone who wants to buy an A320.

They're obviously serious about becoming the best, and they're not arrogant about it either.

This sounds like Antoines thread, if so, I invited him to become a Beta tester after noticing his eye for detail in the very thread referenced. We're now working with him and auditing our systems. Really cool guy, loads of knowledge about the airplane!

[sonny147 579]

13 minutes ago, Aamir said:

This sounds like Antoines thread, if so, I invited him to become a Beta tester after noticing his eye for detail in the very thread referenced. We're now working with him and auditing our systems. Really cool guy, loads of knowledge about the airplane!

keep up the fantastic work Amir, we all appreciate what you guys are bring to MSFS , simply awesome !

[Carts85 1,203]

Aamir’s last post is exactly why Fenix will surpass what is out there if it hasn’t already. Completely committed to continuous improvements.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

30 minutes ago, Aamir said:

I personally use the lighter sidestick option, it's what a few of the type rated guys and gals on the test team recommended who all use Warthogs. 

I also use the Warthog.  I'm using the lighter sensitivity option also, but it has taking me many months to get the sensitivity settings to an acceptable level...lol.

In all honestly, I wouldn't recommend the Warthog for desktop sim use.  It's just too heavy.  I know the plastic ones aren't the best either, but they seem to be better for making the very small corrections needed during short final and the flare.

[WestAir 2,522]

2 hours ago, Aamir said:

This sounds like Antoines thread, if so, I invited him to become a Beta tester after noticing his eye for detail in the very thread referenced. We're now working with him and auditing our systems. Really cool guy, loads of knowledge about the airplane!

That's the one! Your response to Antoines was a breath of fresh air. Honestly you'd make more money writing a book on PR. A lot of companies could take a page or two!

Cheers.

[chapstick 2,758]

4 hours ago, Carts85 said:

Completely committed to continuous improvements.

Where are they though?

[carlanthony24 576]

8 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

Where are they though?

Maybe try coding something yourself. If you are in the Discord you would see all the updates about what is happening. These things take time.

[Greazer 1,326]

There is a Strong demand for Fenix B737 Max product line. But they remain tight lipped regarding the next projects.

[Aamir 2,907]

26 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

Where are they though?

I'm not sure if you're being obtuse or literal - but the last delivered update was 7/11/2022, just over 2 months ago. The update before that, was 1 week and 6 days before that. The update before that, less than a month. The update before that, 4 days. So on.. so forth. Large gaps, and small gaps. Both exist. Some tackle big issues. Some tackle small.

Tackling big issues, i.e building a completely independent external physics model for a turbofan engine, isn't just knocked out in an afternoon after a nap and some beers. It's months of data collection. Months more of code to prototype. Weeks thereafter to refine. And further weeks to test, iterate, and bugfix. That's before it goes into beta testing.

That's one thing. We are also rebuilding the rendering pipeline and solution for the displays to eek out more performance, as this is a common complaint with the aircraft. A render pipeline rebuild is... just absurd, frankly, in terms of work required. Absurd. 

And then we're rebuilding the front-end of the displays also, to address the "fonts are wrong" complaint. That's another set of weeks of data collection, analysis, comparison before the first line of code is written. Then you write the code and it takes a month or two to completely tear out the old inaccurate displays, and build them up to pixel-accuracy. 

The visual model is getting a completely free overhaul (substantial enough we are calling it V2) because we learned from our first build and know where we can improve. So we are doing it as we are indeed aiming to output the best quality of work we are capable of producing. But once again, it is not cheap, nor fast. But it will be good. 

As the saying goes. It takes 5 seconds to type out a complaint about something, and 5 months fixing it. I guess with that in mind, it's quite difficult for some users to comprehend the amount of work that goes into fixing things that people complain about, but at a certain point we must take a breath, and focus on the long term improvement projects to the aircraft, instead of delivering updates every 3 weeks. Otherwise none of the "big stuff" ever happens. That's just how software goes.

[bendead 1,085]

On 1/7/2023 at 9:15 PM, sonny147 said:

the Fenix is really good

I agree, really good, but if they add optionally via the EFB, PTU dog barking sound in the cockpit, it will become a master piece 😁 

[Greazer 1,326]

Kudos to Fenix for the pursuit of perfection. The first product is a learning experience. However I can see all of this paying off in future.