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Guest nehuge

Lost my enthusiasm

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I've been a simmer since FS98 days. However over the last couple of years I've grown tired of the sim. To be honest I thought the sim would have been more realist 9 years later(I'm talking the flight experience). As far as realism, FS 2004 isn't all that more realist then FS98 except the scenery and let's face it, the scenery in FS2004 is still pretty cartoonish. I saw FSX standard on sale at circuit city today for $14.95. I'll pick it up. Do you think this will get me excited about simming again or is it going to feel like the same toy that's it's always been? I'll let you know. Maybe x-plane has a new version, that sim never had much in the scenery department but at least it always felt that you were flying. We'll see.Tim

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Flying from A to B can get tedious very quickly, whether it be with FS5 or FSX. And let's be honest: On a 19" monitor, the flightsim experience can only go far... even in spite of the prettier scenery that comes with each new version of FS.I might suggest that you try dabbling in the development side of things (creating scenery, missions, aircraft, etc).You might discover that that area of flightsim represents a more satisfying experience from an intellectual and creative point of view than simply pressing buttons on the autopilot, which does get boring after some time.Cheers,Bryan

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And go online with VATSIM or IVAO for a new experience if you haven't done so. Living with AI can only go so far.Also, if you want a different thing but related, try controlling on VATSIM as I did - I had a heck of an experience, even if time to do it simply vanished for me. I'm still hoping to get back to it someday.Etienne

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There's two things I see from it1) If you've lost your enthusiasm and you're looking for a miracle to restore it, I don't believe you are going to find it. 2) The reason why is that Flight Simulator has had evolutionary growth in a positive direction since it's creation, some things have slipped in favor of others, but on a whole, the sim has continued to move towards higher fidelity in graphics and simulation. But there are very distinct limitations in a motionless, one viewport (by default, of course) system. The guys who build the huge motion-platform rigs exactly like real cockpits get a bit closer at a great price, but there is still an essential part missing. I've only flown a few times, as compared to others, and always as a passenger, but the sensation of flight is something that is very nearly impossible to replicate in a computer game. They do a wonderful job, I think, of creating the simulator as an open platform for experimentation, but yes, in the long run it is a toy or a game or a simulator, and not the real thing, and there will always be a separation there.I only say this because I believe Flight Sim to only be as serious as you take it, but it's certainly possible to take it too seriously, and expect too much out of it. I think we see it a lot here. We all love flying for very different reasons, but I think a lot of comes down to that barnstormer mentality, the seat of our pants feeling or experiencing the ground fall away and computer technology as a whole has a long way to go before they can make us feel that.Right now, it's the closest thing we have and I love it for that.

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Some software (I omit the names since I don't want to stir up any controversy) that is available for FS2004 to simulate a cargo or airliner pilot career, has had quite a following because of the much higher motivation that it would add to flying. However, IMHO these products have been either sustained by extremely small dev teams (sometimes a single dev), and often they were fraught with heavy software or design deficiencies, or simply poor flexibility due to the limited development resources (this is not a criticism of the developers - few resources can only give you that much).FS Economy is another worthy effort of a different kind (it's mostly web-based), especially since it doesn't require any significant software to be installed on your computer, but for the moment it really only applies to those who like bush flying or GA cargo. It's free, however, so that's a plus of course.Anyway, what I keep hoping for is that some strong budget and a substantial development team may be put behind a *major* similar project, one that would add much more role playing to the sim experience. I think it would be a major seller, and if done right and with, again, important dev support it would be a financial success, as well. I wonder why this isn't happening: we have dozens and dozens of excellent airplane or gauge add-ons, to the point that it's hard to distinguish the fine points between the variants, but only very, very few 'role-playing' add-ons. Pity!

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FSX has a better "feel of flying" but that is of course highly subjective I suppose. It simulates non-smooth air (which most air isn't smooth anyway) a little better than past versions I think.It won't feel like a toy when you start doing real-world procedure flying. :) At least not to me anyway. As far as the scenery goes, it's all my opinion, but I have been around since 1985 SubLogic FS II and the scenery is a lot better, even from FS98 in my opin. To really get the most out of flight simming I think to some extent you have to be able to "fill in the blanks" in your mind about scenery. But we're getting gradually closer to the point where fewer blanks need to be filled in. ;)RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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>Anyway, what I keep hoping for is that some strong budget and>a substantial development team may be put behind a *major*>similar project, one that would add much more role playing to>the sim experience. I think it would be a major seller, and if>done right and with, again, important dev support it would be>a financial success, as well. I wonder why this isn't>happening: we have dozens and dozens of excellent airplane or>gauge add-ons, to the point that it's hard to distinguish the>fine points between the variants, but only very, very few>'role-playing' add-ons. Pity!What's interesting is that I get the feeling on the board a lot that this sort of thing would be frowned on by a majority of the users, because it would make their sim too "gamey". There was a big outlash towards this sort of thing with missions in FSX.I personally would love to add a little more depth to the sandbox in that sense, to be able to have a career or business that is tracked in the game, or possibly in an online system. Of course, I'm still pushing for Massively Multiplayer Flight Sim as the future, but I haven't figured out how to fix all the major issues in that.

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Totally agree with you and I do find the single FSX 'missions' gamey and scripted, taking away a lot of what the sim is about. Sandbox is exactly the word I should have used.

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Have you tried real flying? Maybe it's time to walk away from the simulator and hit the real sky. I can tell you that there are no jaggies in the scenery you see, the frame rates are great, and the realism doesn't get better. What do you think?Dave Vega

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>I've been a simmer since FS98 days. However over the last>couple of years I've grown tired of the sim. To be honest I>thought the sim would have been more realist 9 years later(I'm>talking the flight experience). As far as realism, FS 2004>isn't all that more realist then FS98 except the scenery and>let's face it, the scenery in FS2004 is still pretty>cartoonish. I saw FSX standard on sale at circuit city today>for $14.95. I'll pick it up. Do you think this will get me>excited about simming again or is it going to feel like the>same toy that's it's always been? I'll let you know. Maybe>x-plane has a new version, that sim never had much in the>scenery department but at least it always felt that you were>flying. We'll see.>>TimI am suffering from the same lack of enthusiasm too. But hopefully when some new products come out for FSX they will spunk me up. lolBuy the DELUXE version!

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>Have you tried real flying? Maybe it's time to walk away>from the simulator and hit the real sky. I can tell you that>there are no jaggies in the scenery you see, the frame rates>are great, and the realism doesn't get better. What do you>think?>>Dave VegaActually I have flown a Cessna before. You're right, nothing compares. A bit expensive though, haha. Installing FSX as I write. We'll see if this baby will run on my laptop. I've got twice the minimums but something tells me it's going to crawl if I know my FS releases. I was a beta tester on FS2000. Talk about a crawl.Tim

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>Totally agree with you and I do find the single FSX>'missions' gamey and scripted, taking away a lot of what the>sim is about. Sandbox is exactly the word I should have used.Oh, we aren't on the exact same page. I actually like the missions, but that's not necessarily what I would have done with the sim.Then again, I'm known for thinking way above actually realistic expectations.

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I am totally amazed at the software development side of the flight simulation environment. The software that is now out there for the 737NG and 747.. if you like flying 'heavies'.. is pretty spectacular. I think that to make the flight simulation more appealing, development in the 'hardware' side of this business needs a lot of attention. Having spent several hours in the real Boeing NG simulator, I can assure you that the moderately priced yokes, rudders and throttles don't come anywhere close to what the real ones feel like.I know I'm comparing a 10 to 20 million sim to what is out here now, but, I hope that in the not too distant future, some entrepreneur can come up with a reasonably priced, halfway decent yoke, that has some semblance of what the real thing feels like. Just my opinion as to what would really help the entire FS immersion factor.jack

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tim:my energy to fly comes and goes over time. back in '99 i had a 'falling out' of FS after many-many years of 'all my free time' simming ... what got me excited was VA flying. hooked up with a group that was a good match for me and i flew many many flights over a couple of years.i dropped the VA when job and life got 'in the way;' but continued to fly (and fiddle with FS in my advanced ways both on the fs.cfg files and aircraft/panel setups).VATSIM is something in enjoy from time to time. did much more flights on-line a few years ago than now ... but i stay 'current' by jumping on the network from every now and again.i also find, in general, i fly more in the winter than summer and fall when i'm camping, hunting and sailing.over the past couple of years i found i enjoyed helping others with FS almost as much as 'playing' the sim myself. as a result i have been able to hookup with a developer and provide support in the product forum.positive to this is i'm able to do something i enjoy - teaching/helping (what i do to keep food on the table by the way).negative - in 99% of cases you are helping across the internet in public/semi-private forums. this means the hurtful side of the Internet exists in force where one is flamed, attacked, etc. for helping or having a different opinion (some forums are worse/meaner than others). One develops a thick skin over time (on gets a thicker one).i encourage you to look at what you enjoy about FSing and 'build on that'. or, try something you haven't done on FS - if you flew jets go to GA flying (toss the FMC/MCDU out the window and fly VFR and IFR only with VOR/NDBs. If you flew GAs, go to jets.in the end

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Honestly flying from A to B in the real deal can get boring. I was like a kid on steroids when I bought my first plane. Couldn't stand it that I couldn't have it sitting in my parking lot at home. x( But after a while it was like getting in the car to go somewhere. Always fun, but it does wear down. After a year or two of hanger rent, annuals, insurance, and fuel, my flying hours dropped to less than 30 for 6 months. I finally agreed with my wife and cut my warrior free. Once I retire I think I'll try it again though.

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Well it's installed. I will say that my first impression is, hey, at least it isn't crawling. I fiddled a bit with the graphics and even running at currently low settings, it looks better than FS2004. I was afraid it was going to stutter. I've got some tweaking to do of course, and I guess I better download the patch. Some graphic anomalies to figure out such as, why is my mouse pointer black? and how do I get rid of the menu bar?... but I'm sure I'll figure all that stuff out. My biggest gripe is that it loads so slow but I'm running vista and I'm use to that, haha. I agree I think I will get into the VA community and do some online flying now that I got high speed wireless. Now, where's that darn logitech joystick of mine? Am I sounding enthused yet?Tim

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Hi Tim, I have these sorta moments often too. Maybe it's just because my system doesn't exactly run FSX how I want it to, or I spend too much time tweaking ;). But I think the real reason why I get bored with flight sim is because I really really honestly yearn to be in the air, flying real planes... Flying is too dang $$$ arghhh... now I'm training to be an air traffic controller, so at least I'll get to be near the planes hehe.... Everytime I fly FS, it's usually just some pattern work with the RealAir SF260 or the default C208/Extra while screwing around. I rarely get out the heavies A) because once I get going faster than 200kts my scenery is a blurry mess and :( they aren't very realistic systems-wise...I do like flying the missions, but I already did all of them, and I like the helicopter missions the most, but did them too. I've done a VA, VATSIM as a pilot and controller, LAN multiplayer with friends doing aerobatics, fully planned out a route and used navaids etc with LevelD 767 in FS9, and all the stuff in between. sometimes it just gets old...I suggest you take a months break from it and if you miss it, just go back and fly near your hometown....that's what I do

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>Hi Tim, I have these sorta moments often too. Maybe it's>just because my system doesn't exactly run FSX how I want it>to, or I spend too much time tweaking ;). >>But I think the real reason why I get bored with flight sim is>because I really really honestly yearn to be in the air,>flying real planes... Flying is too dang $$$ arghhh... now>I'm training to be an air traffic controller, so at least I'll>get to be near the planes hehe.... Everytime I fly FS, it's>usually just some pattern work with the RealAir SF260 or the>default C208/Extra while screwing around. I rarely get out>the heavies A) because once I get going faster than 200kts my>scenery is a blurry mess and :( they aren't very realistic>systems-wise...>>I do like flying the missions, but I already did all of them,>and I like the helicopter missions the most, but did them too.> >>I've done a VA, VATSIM as a pilot and controller, LAN>multiplayer with friends doing aerobatics, fully planned out a>route and used navaids etc with LevelD 767 in FS9, and all the>stuff in between. sometimes it just gets old...>>I suggest you take a months break from it and if you miss it,>just go back and fly near your hometown....that's what I do

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Perhaps we're being a little short-sighted. Think about this. FSX has a pretty substantial SDK with a mission development set. You can add any aircraft of your choice and scenery to boot, plus voices, etc. How about a full-blown combat simulation withing FSX. Shoot down aircraft, put bombs on target, do helicopters, and the like - all within the fantastic FSX scenery. You could use the FSX damage function. Hey, I smell an opportunity (money too).This would give a tremenous boost to FSX and give all you thrill seekers out there some amunition (no pun intended). It's a thought.fb

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There's only one word for it... Well a couple anyway - FS EconomyGo to... http://www.fseconomy.com/ for a very satisfying simming experience.Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern AustraliaIntel Core 2 Duo E6700ASUS P5N32-E SLI Deluxe Motherboard4GB Corsair VS DDR2 667Mhz RAMInno3D 8800 GTX 768MB GDDR3 590MHz VideoASUS MW221u 21" Wide Screen LCD2 x 320Gb WD SATA DrivesCreative X-Fi Platinum Sound Lian Li PC-B20B Aluminium Black CaseMS Vista Ultimate OEMCH FlightSim Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USBCH Throttle Quadrant USBTrackIR 4 Pro and Track ClipMSFS FSX Deluxe Edition Full install at 1400x960x32Check out my 5th Around the World flight with MS FSX at http://members.iinet.com.au/~portercbp/fly...W_05/index.html

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For my two cents (or whatever its worth), I think the eventual saving grace of flight sim will be to move in the direction of very much higher aircraft realism and interaction as in the example of Digital Aviations awesome Dornier do-27. Flying without any negative consequences for poor piloting technique etc. eventually gets a bit boring.

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TIM...As a "RW" pilot I have to ask. As a "simmer" since 1984 I have to ask...Are you an aviator? Have you flown? Do you really know just how real MSFS, X-Plane, IL-2, Condor, Falcon and all the rest are?You say you are tired. If you are so tired, my suggestion would be to fly a REAL PLANE.Once you have done that...You'll never be bored with the likes of FS, X-Plane, IL-2, etc.You just don't know what you don't know.My Humble Opinion,bt

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