52 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

What do you think about the fact that most of users don’t have this problem?

There is an 8-page thread on the official forums discussing this issue.

It's real and notable streamers such as flightdeck2sim seems to be bothered by it , according to the OP. Janov (MIA, he was a prolific member here) also commented in that thread

"The general "dark cockpit during the day" issue is something that LR is aware of and intends to improve upon."

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/272304-dark-cockpits/&

 Let's hope it will be improved.

3 hours ago, SAS443 said:

"The general "dark cockpit during the day" issue is something that LR is aware of and intends to improve upon."

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/272304-dark-cockpits/&

 Let's hope it will be improved.

This is from September 2022. At the beginning there really was an issue with dark cockpits and blurry instruments. This has been fixed for me. So the question remains: why does this only happen for some and not for everyone? My guess is that this only happens on some monitors / graphic drivers otherwise everybody would have this issue..

"Lighting tuning" and "sky/exposure recalibration" are mentioned for the 12.07 roadmap, so it's possible that cockpit lighting will also be modified.

Edited July 8, 20232 yr by Murmur

On 7/8/2023 at 9:04 AM, Franz007 said:

 It looks like it could be related to some (older?) monitors. 

For months we have ascertained that the monitors have absolutely nothing to do with the problem of dark panels.
Also, as we have already explained many many many times, the screenshots that we see published do not capture the monitor settings.
A screenshot of XP12 can be captured even with the monitor completely turned Off .
Screenshots are captured internally in XP12, they do not "pass through" the monitor (and its settings) before being captured.
So it doesn't matter if the monitor is old, new, color, black and white, round, square, power On, power Off, etc etc.
Dark panels are not a monitor bug and are not generated by monitors.
It's an XP12 bug, and it's generated by XP12. (when XP12 finally fixes that bug you will see all the monitors in the world suddenly become beautiful without doing any calibration!).

Just as cars leave the factory with perfectly calibrated wheel alignment, monitors also leave the factory already calibrated.
Calibration is performed for important advertising and commercial reasons.
The monitors are displayed in stores and large shopping malls, along with dozens of monitors from other competing brands.
If a company doesn't calibrate its monitors well, the customer immediately notices that among all those monitors there is one that looks decidedly uglier than the others, so they don't buy it.
So monitor calibration is a very important factor for a company's profit, and it is in every company's interest to place monitors on the market that are already perfectly calibrated in terms of brightness, balance, gamma and colours.
Not only;
Some famous manufacturers of monitors and televisions categorically forbid the store attendants to change the factory calibrations!
The reason is simple: if the monitor is already perfectly calibrated at the factory, and the attendant "jiggles that balance", the monitor degrades its viewing quality (it can get too bright and uncomfortable for the eyes, or it can take on colors that are too pale and too strong) and risks selling much less than the manufacturer's expectations.
And the company does not want this.

7 hours ago, efis007 said:

For months we have ascertained that the monitors have absolutely nothing to do with the problem of dark panels.
Also, as we have already explained many many many times, the screenshots that we see published do not capture the monitor settings.

then,

why,

does xplane and the screenshots on several of my monitors and the PSVR headset not have any problem at all, with dark areas looking shady and perfectly balanced, as if Im sat in the actual cockpit.

PSVR and Macbook in particular the dark areas even when looking directly outside (but not at the sun) feel bright and alive.

while on another monitor (that I dont really use for anything other than status monitoring) anything dark in the cockpit or a screenshot of it is 100% black and basically invisible unless the cockpit lights are switched on or the sun visor update is deployed.

The monitor, its calibration, and ability to handle blacks and greys is absolutely part of the problem people are experiencing as far as I can tell,

stating otherwise helps the situation how exactly?

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by mSparks

A monitor's calibration menu doesn't allow for complex processing like Adobe Photoshop, so monitor calibration can't do anything miraculous to improve dark panels.
If I put this image on my professional monitor, and try to operate on the monitor menu, that panel in shadow is absolutely impossible as if it were in light.

Users have already tried to run the false news of monitor calibration spread by "XP fans".
Nothing changes.
Put that image on your monitor, adjust all the menu parameters you want (brightness, color, gamma, etc)... and you will never get anything... no improvement... that panel will continue to remain dark and the invisible tools.
Not only.
If you try to brighten the range of black tones by recklessly acting on the monitor menu, you destroy the overall image because - during the brightening process - all the other shadow components present in the scene are inevitably involved, which should not be brightened.
The result is a deterioration of the XP's visual quality, the dynamic range especially of the dark tones being completely compromised.

Monitor calibration should not be touched, except in extremely special cases (and XP does not belong to the "extremely special cases").
The dark panel bug is inside XP, not inside the monitor.
The dark panel bug is generated by XP, not the monitor.
Our monitors work great.
It's XP that needs to fix its bugs!
The dark panel bug has been around since the year 2017, we have shown irrefutable proofs that the bug has been around for 6 years... first with XP11... and now with XP12.

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

stating otherwise helps the situation how exactly?

This question should be addressed to yourself.
Always stating the opposite of the evidence acquired how do you plan to help XP?
My solution I've already explained in detail in talk pages: remove the "eyes autoexposure" function from XP12 and reform the tonemapper which is currently wrong. (this article might be interesting https://64.github.io/tonemapping/ )
This is my solution to help XP12.

And your solution would be?
Convincing users to buy a new monitor and then haphazardly fiddling with the monitor's setup menus until their eyes are ruined in a vain attempt to brighten the shadows by forcing the device to emit more light and gamma than the factory settings?
Is this your ultimate solution to help XP12?
Leave XP12 buggy, and blind our eyes?

I actually bought a 2k monitor that came in with a calibration certificate (not purposely, my old monitor died). Cockpit darkness is still there, the lack of AA is still there. Wonder what the "fans" will say now.

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by bogdansrb

15 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

Wonder what the "fans" will say now.

Exercise your freedom of choice.

1 hour ago, efis007 said:

A monitor's calibration menu doesn't allow for complex processing like Adobe Photoshop, so monitor calibration can't do anything miraculous to improve dark panels.
If I put this image on my professional monitor, and try to operate on the monitor menu, that panel in shadow is absolutely impossible as if it were in light.

Users have already tried to run the false news of monitor calibration spread by "XP fans".
Nothing changes.
Put that image on your monitor, adjust all the menu parameters you want (brightness, color, gamma, etc)... and you will never get anything... no improvement... that panel will continue to remain dark and the invisible tools.
Not only.
If you try to brighten the range of black tones by recklessly acting on the monitor menu, you destroy the overall image because - during the brightening process - all the other shadow components present in the scene are inevitably involved, which should not be brightened.
The result is a deterioration of the XP's visual quality, the dynamic range especially of the dark tones being completely compromised.

Monitor calibration should not be touched, except in extremely special cases (and XP does not belong to the "extremely special cases").
The dark panel bug is inside XP, not inside the monitor.
The dark panel bug is generated by XP, not the monitor.
Our monitors work great.
It's XP that needs to fix its bugs!
The dark panel bug has been around since the year 2017, we have shown irrefutable proofs that the bug has been around for 6 years... first with XP11... and now with XP12.

This question should be addressed to yourself.
Always stating the opposite of the evidence acquired how do you plan to help XP?
My solution I've already explained in detail in talk pages: remove the "eyes autoexposure" function from XP12 and reform the tonemapper which is currently wrong. (this article might be interesting https://64.github.io/tonemapping/ )
This is my solution to help XP12.

And your solution would be?
Convincing users to buy a new monitor and then haphazardly fiddling with the monitor's setup menus until their eyes are ruined in a vain attempt to brighten the shadows by forcing the device to emit more light and gamma than the factory settings?
Is this your ultimate solution to help XP12?
Leave XP12 buggy, and blind our eyes?

I completely agree on the fact that the monitor calibration has nothing to do with this thing. As mentioned a few replies earlier, monitor doesn't matter at all. You could run X-Plane on a black&white screen the screenshots would still be colorful.

Now, I don't understand how some people keep calling this darkness "a bug". It is not. It's just a visual effect meant to reproduce the way eyes and photo camera sensors react. The "solution" is just to move your view a bit down. That way, the image brightness will adapt to show the cockpit. If you keep your view level, the sim understands you are looking outside, then adjusts the brightness to show the outside (and interior starts looking dark). I don't think LM has to fix anything about that.

I have the impression that the real issue is that some people would like their virtual cockpit to look like the 2D panels from 20 years ago. At that time, yes you could look at a very bright exterior while still having a very bright and shining cockpit displayed in front of you I'm glad this era is gone, really. Now we have 3D cockpits. You want to look at your cockpit, look down. You want to look outside in front of you, look forward. It's not hard, really. And if you really can't stand it, just turn on the floodlights.

 

 

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by Daube

1 hour ago, efis007 said:

Put that image on your monitor

why?

It has been stated multiple time the problem there is the cockpit textures.

Not XPlane, not the monitor, not gpu drivers, simply the textures in the aircraft.

if you don't want to wait for a Laminar artist to change it, do it yourself open the textures folder and brighten them up - awful lot easier than trying to do it in photoshop at 60 fps..

e.g. in the airbus (probably the worst culprit atm)

that (the not dark panel around the 2992) was from simply brightening objects/cockpit/int5.dds to be.... not dark...

You might as well blame Ferrari for a pothole in the road ripping the wheel off your car as blame xplane for rendering dark cockpit textures as .... dark.

And, btw. your unedited screenshot actually looks perfectly normal here on my macbook air at full screen with dark surroundings. 

 

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by mSparks

29 minutes ago, Daube said:

Now, I don't understand how some people keep calling this darkness "a bug". It is not. It's just a visual effect meant to reproduce the way eyes and photo camera sensors react.

It is a visual effect that exclusively imitates a camera.
Our eyes don't see the world like cameras do, so XP12's representation is inaccurate and doesn't reproduce a realistic imitation of the human eye.
In the real world, our eyes don't need to look "down" to see the instruments and cockpit well.
A representation like this is completely far from reality.

If in the real world all the pilots of the world saw the panel all black and unreadable there would be dozens of plane crashes every day.
Accidents all due to the same factor: "human error resulting from a non-visible panel".

14 hours ago, efis007 said:

For months we have ascertained that the monitors have absolutely nothing to do with the problem of dark panels.
Also, as we have already explained many many many times, the screenshots that we see published do not capture the monitor settings.

So why is the screenshot brighter when i set my monitor to a brighter color? And how do you explain that many users like myself don’t have that problem of dark panels?

6 minutes ago, efis007 said:

If in the real world all the pilots of the world saw the panel all black and unreadable there would be dozens of plane crashes every day.

That’s exactly why pilots use the windows-blender and/or sunglasses, otherwise the sun shining makes the reading of instruments difficult.

It’s also related to the monitor. Users report the same kind of issues with other games: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/why-the-dark-zones-of-my-games-are-so-dark-that-i-almost-cant-see-anything.1583347/

42 minutes ago, efis007 said:

A representation like this is completely far from reality.

But also as close as any 2D wallart will ever get to reality.

48 minutes ago, efis007 said:

If in the real world all the pilots of the world saw the panel all black and unreadable there would be dozens of plane crashes every day.

And since there isnt, I think we can safely conclude that all the real world pilots in question, do in fact, have neck muscles and the ability to move their eyeballs. 

However hard that is for you to believe....