Is FlightSim.to defending copyright infringement?

[ryanbatc 12,788]

I've been in discussion with a few users over at flightsim.to about the potential piracy/theft of another's livery.

If you've ever been to the site and enjoy liveries and other sorts of freeware you might know the name Crispy136.  Crispy has made some incredible liveries for MSFS and has had one of the highest upload rates I've seen.  

Crispy recently added support for the Black Square Bonanza to his Jaguar livery.  It appears another user, Raller, has copied the majority of Crispy's files and made some changes and reuploaded the paint as a German registration.  Although Raller has done a custom interior on his own, the exterior work has been clearly stolen without authorization from Crispy.  I have verified this, along with @Tim-HH and another independent livery creator.  I have spoken directly to Crispy about this and what he tells me is that Flightsim.to will NOT take down Raller's livery even though it uses stolen parts.  I also emailed flightsim.to and they would not do anything because the file in question is not mine.

While I found the previous flightsim.to debacle to be a "storm in a teacup," as another user here remarked, I find this to be of utmost importance.  You cannot just upload someone else's work without their consent.  And the fact that flightsim.to is supporting this (by not deleting Raller's file) is unacceptable.

Here's two gifs created by Tim to compare.  If you've never made a livery I'll make it clear that it's almost impossible to have exact curves, designs and colors as someone else even if the real world design was the same.

 

[The Flight Level 2,112]

Good points Ryan! With time, the wake up call will come to Raller and his reputation diminished! You have made Flightsim.to aware and it is just a matter of time when this gets resolved.

[ryanbatc 12,788]

1 minute ago, Doering said:

Good points Ryan! With time, the wake up call will come to Raller and his reputation diminished! You have made Flightsim.to aware and it is just a matter of time when this gets resolved.

I'm not sure.  Crispy has taken down his Jaguar paint already.  It's incredibly frustrating when someone takes your work but worse when the hosting site supports theft.

[guenseli 1,577]

When I e-mail fs.to to inform them that other uploaders use my icons (or parts of my profiles) without asking me, these uploads got deleted almost immediatelly.

 

 

[ryanbatc 12,788]

3 minutes ago, guenseli said:

When I e-mail fs.to to inform them that other uploaders use my icons (or parts of my profiles) without asking me, these uploads got deleted almost immediatelly.

 

 

I agree - that has happened in the past.  Crispy is a prolific painter so it's disturbing that flightsim.to has not deleted Raller's file.

[guenseli 1,577]

Do we have the exact answer from flightsim.to to Crispy why they do not want to delete the files?

As long as we do not have that answer, I do not think, we should judge or start the next storm here ....

If you are in contact with Crispy, please encourage him to post here his personal view of that case.

[ryanbatc 12,788]

5 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Do we have the exact answer from flightsim.to to Crispy why they do not want to delete the files?

As long as we do not have that answer, I do not think, we should judge or start the next storm here ....

If you are in contact with Crispy, please encourage him to post here his personal view of that case.

Very well I will ask him.

[guenseli 1,577]

And I have asked Raller via PM.

(steps that maybe should have been done before escalating in a public forum)

[ryanbatc 12,788]

5 minutes ago, guenseli said:

And I have asked Raller via PM.

(steps that maybe should have been done before escalating in a public forum)

Raller was already privately and publicly asked by Crispy on flightsim.to

Here is the text from a few days ago on the file

rallerfile by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Edited March 15, 2023 by ryanbatc

[scotchegg 4,163]

I guess it’s not huuuugely important, but do we know who’s operating the site? What’s their background?

[guenseli 1,577]

1 minute ago, ryanbatc said:

Raller was already privately and publicly asked by Crispy on flightsim.to

An information which should have been in the initial post. And also how long he had time to answer ... 1 hour, 1 day?

Do not think I defend what he has probably done

But I think this is a very, very heavy accusation you make public here. Before sth like this starts, you should be very sure to have all facts and all parties have had enough time to respond. The livery you talk about was uploaded yesterday ... seems a bit fast to get answers and reactions from all involved before making this public post in my opinion!

[guenseli 1,577]

3 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

but do we know who’s operating the site?

Like most sites, also this site does have that information when you like to find it: Flightsim.to > legal > Contact

[qqwertz 771]

https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-artists-appropriation-theft

I think flightsim.to is just following US copyright law in their decision. That may be a subject to debate, but it is what it is.

Peter

[Mike62 29]

33 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

I'm not sure.  Crispy has taken down his Jaguar paint already.  It's incredibly frustrating when someone takes your work but worse when the hosting site supports theft.

I did not get a chance to download Crispy's Jag paint, do you know if he has uploaded to other sites.

 

[keight 26]

I have a similar story. About five years ago I have created an excel sheet for  A319/A320 takeoff and landing performance calculations. They were based on conservative calculations from tables available in fcom and qrh. It took me few months to complete the project including creating my own design, developing formulas, enter endless data and testing. Then I published it on the FSLabs forum but some day I saw it on flightsim.to. I recognized familiar appearance on the screenshot downloaded and found its exactly the same spreadsheet with slightly modified colors and hidden A319 data. The so called author never asked  permission and somehow hacked my spreadsheet as it was protected by password. Judging by the comments he is pretending he is a creator and craziest thing he accepts donations by paypal link in the description 🙂

https://flightsim.to/file/11740/takeoff-landing-performance-calculator-a320