1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

The radical, reckless, silly, and almost childish proposals regarding this stuff will almost certainly be proven wrong over time and indeed already have been proven wrong, but the folks who believe in the cause don't care. 

They will shout you down, try to ridicule you, and ultimately persecute and censor you if you disagree with them, even though their predictions and ideas have been proven wrong over and over again.

This isn't part of a conversation or even an argument.  It's a condemnation of people you don't happen to agree with Dave.

You say they will...try to ridicule you.  Isn't that exactly what you are doing in the first line of your statement?

Noel

 

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

Insults don't make for good argument.  I do not need help in understanding my own language.

Not an insult. You defined the word incorrectly. We all do that sometimes. 

That condescending tone is unwarranted. I choose my words carefully. I did not define anything. I referred to your use of the word 'Myths'  to dismiss those reports you personally don't agree with, of problems users have had with their electric vehicles. Some of the reports have no doubt been exaggerated by repetition, but the same applies to some of the overhyped claims in favour of electric cars,

Looks like it's time to break out the 🥊.   May be a 🔒coming soon!

12 minutes ago, charliearon said:

May be a 🔒coming soon!

Please.

46 minutes ago, charliearon said:

Looks like it's time to break out the 🥊.   May be a 🔒coming soon!

But it's been fun, hasn't it?

3 hours ago, birdguy said:

You say they will...try to ridicule you.  Isn't that exactly what you are doing in the first line of your statement?

I didn't call anybody any names, Noel.  I didn't use derogatory terms to describe the folks who push this agenda.  I have in the past, but I don't any more because I don't want to do what they do.

If you disagree with them, they call you a "crackpot", "denier", and other derogatory names.  Any science or facts that call into question their claims is deemed "pseudo-science" or "junk science".

There is no middle ground with these folks.  That paper I posted is just one example of radical proposals made by these folks.  I showcase it because it is emblematic of what this movement and belief-system is all about.

Believe me, Noel, if they get their way you will be taking a bus just to get over to the next town, as you either won't be allowed to have or be able to afford a car of your own.

If you want to know more, just look up "World Economic Forum You Will Own Nothing and be Happy", "15-minute Cities", "UN Agenda 21", and "UN Agenda 2030".

Dave

Edited March 22, 20233 yr by dave2013

16 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

World Economic Forum You Will Own Nothing and be Happy

'Danish politician Ida Auken, who wrote the prediction in question, said it was not a “utopia or dream of the future” but “a scenario showing where we could be heading - for better and for worse.”'

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-wef-idUSKBN2AP2T0 

I always buy a 10 year old car and drive them for another 10 years, therefore when used EV's are 10 years old and the battery no good anymore, I will buy one and stick a diesel generator on it to power it and drive it for another 10 years, just doing my part 😁

56 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

UN Agenda 2030

I started to read the agenda but my eyes soon glazed over. It seemed to emphasise, amongst other things, the need for equal rights for all, end extreme poverty and promote world peace. If you found some sinister motive behind one of the 17 goals, perhaps you could direct us to it 

Also, I see it was published in 2015 so we are already halfway there. I wonder how things are progressing.

https://sdgs.un.org/2030agenda

Edited March 22, 20233 yr by dmwalker

10 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

I always buy a 10 year old car and drive them for another 10 years,

I drive a twenty-four year old Toyota Camry that runs as well today as it did when it was new. It is simply a reflection of brilliant engineering. I also regularly get around 28 mpg, even around town.

7 minutes ago, n4gix said:

I drive a twenty-four year old Toyota Camry that runs as well today as it did when it was new. It is simply a reflection of brilliant engineering. I also regularly get around 28 mpg, even around town.

I agree, you can take any car going all the way back to the Model-T and get them running as good as new. When you do keep a car running past 20 years you are preventing a new car from being built. An EV has a shorter lifespan to a petrol engine and takes 6 times more the resources to build one, and the battery uses rare metals that have a limited resource. Keeping the old cars running is actually better over all as it lowers the burden on the supply chain.

44 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

If you found some sinister motive behind one of the 17 goals, perhaps you could direct us to it

You need to read the whole document, not just the innocuous-sounding goals.

Anyway, the whole premise is to provide "sustainable", "inclusive", and "equitable", development and living conditions for everyone in the world, about 8 billion people.  A laudable and noble goal, albeit entirely impossible to achieve within a few decades.  I do support the goals, but you have to read between the lines and think about what the implementation of policies to achieve those goals will require.

What it boils down to is this: there is not enough energy, materials, or money in the world to give 8 billion people the same living standard as those who live in developed countries.  Former President Obama actually said as much when he admitted that everyone in Africa could not realistically own a car and use air conditioning.

So how do these academics and politicians plan to achieve these goals?  I'll tell you - by reducing the standard of living for those in developed wealthy countries and transferring a significant portion of their wealth to developing poor countries.  Implementing these policies, which will be resisted by much of the developed populations, will also require more authoritarian governmental regimes and additional powers granted to a global authority such as the United Nations.

The ordinary person won't own a car, will be limited to a dwelling of 500-700 sq ft, and will have their consumption of food and energy rationed and monitored.  Oh, and I'm sure taxes will have to increase as well.

Of course, the academics and wealthy, well-connected folks proposing all this stuff will not themselves be affected by the policies and will not have to sacrifice anything. 

Dave

 

 

Edited March 22, 20233 yr by dave2013

This guy is in the trade.

20 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

everyone in Africa could not realistically own a car and use air conditioning.

That is why the goal is to end extreme poverty. I think developed countries could do more to help the worst affected African countries to control disease and starvation, and companies extracting every last valuable natural resources from these countries could do more to control and clean up the resulting pollution..

45 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

This guy is in the trade.

How about these guys from October 12, 2022:

Here's a look at select EVs’ estimated five-year retained values, according to the latest figures from Edmunds.com and KBB.com. Newer models tend to not yet have predictions posted. These projections apply to base models in each line and, as one might infer at this point in the discussion, are subject to change:

• Audi e-tron: 47% retained value after five years
• Audi e-tron Sportback: 49%
• Audi e-tron GT: 26%
• Chevrolet Bolt EV: 55% (eligible for tax credit in 2013)
• Chevrolet Bolt EUV: 66% (eligible for tax credit in 2013)
• Ford Mustang Mach-E: 52% (remains eligible for tax credit)
• Hyundai Kona Electric: 27%
• Jaguar i-PACE: 34%
• Kia Niro EV: 22%
• MINI Cooper SE: 42%
• Nissan Leaf: 41% (remains eligible for tax credit)
• Porsche Taycan: 43%
• Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo: 43%
• Tesla Model 3: 44% (eligible for tax credit in 2013)
• Tesla Model S: 46%
• Tesla Model X: 45%
• Tesla Model Y: 35% (eligible for tax credit in 2013)
• Volvo XC40 Recharge: 39%

Edited March 22, 20233 yr by dmwalker