"For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric."

"Battery packs can cost tens of thousands of dollars and represent up to 50% of an EV's price tag, often making it uneconomical to replace them.

While some automakers like Ford Motor Co (F.N) and General Motors Co (GM.N) said they have made battery packs easier to repair, Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has taken the opposite tack with its Texas-built Model Y, whose new structural battery pack has been described by experts as having 'zero repairability'."

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/scratched-ev-battery-your-insurer-may-have-junk-whole-car-2023-03-20/ 

Swings and roundabouts. Structural battery packs are better in terms of performance, but as its a structural component, vulnerable to the issue raised. 

However... another way to look at it. A Tesla has the performance of a Ferrari and a Ferrari V12 costs half a million dollars to replace, if it needs new plugs you need a new engine. 🤣 I'm kidding of course.

Maybe we should stick to none structural batteries. I've no issue with that, considering the batteries already in the pipeline, with much better performance. 

 

Edited March 20, 20233 yr by martin-w

15 hours ago, dmwalker said:

forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles

Doesn't this already happen if your airbags deploy?

Hook

I would never buy a house on wheels 🤣

On 3/20/2023 at 1:29 PM, dmwalker said:

"For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric."

Electric vehicles are the perfect example of the deceptive advice and information promulgated by the Eco industry. EVs are expensive and most are still very inefficient. Those that do have a reasonable range and performance are not affordable for most working people. They are more about virtue signalling than being an acceptable replacement vehicle for the majority of car users.The fact they cannot be repaired was carefully hidden from the public and I suspect most users are unaware of the fire risks and electrical dangers of the battery packs.

Lithium mining causes enormous environmental damage, but because it's in remote areas it can be conveniently hidden. Now we find the battery packs removed from damaged EVs are already causing storage problems and this is only the beginning of EV use. What a waste of resources.

The reality will really sink in when users are unable to charge their new purchases. Most countries are already struggling with power generation. In Europe people are being forced to switch from gas heating to electric. Apart from being 5 times more expensive per Kw hour, the electricity generation system barely copes at present. Future demand is estimated to be more than double the present peak level. So called green power sources like wind have reduced somewhat in cost, but have proved unreliable  Nuclear power has been run down and new units will take another 10 to 20 years to come onstream. The future for electric anything does not look as bright as some would have us believe.

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by Biggles2010

31 minutes ago, Biggles2010 said:

Electric vehicles are the perfect example of the deceptive advice and information promulgated by the Eco industry. EVs are expensive and most are still very inefficient. Those that do have a reasonable range and performance are not affordable for most working people. They are more about virtue signalling than being an acceptable replacement vehicle for the majority of car users.The fact they cannot be repaired was carefully hidden from the public and I suspect most users are unaware of the fire risks and electrical dangers of the battery packs.

Lithium mining causes enormous environmental damage, but because it's in remote areas it can be conveniently hidden. Now we find the battery packs removed from damaged EVs are already causing storage problems and this is only the beginning of EV use. What a waste of resources.

The reality will really sink in when users are unable to charge their new purchases. Most countries are already struggling with power generation. In Europe people are being forced to switch from gas heating to electric. Apart from being 5 times more expensive per Kw hour, the electricity generation system barely copes at present. Future demand is estimated to be more than double the present peak level. So called green power sources like wind have reduced somewhat in cost, but have proved unreliable  Nuclear power has been run down and new units will take another 10 to 20 years to come onstream. The future for electric anything does not look as bright as some would have us believe.

Amen!  How dare you not follow the narrative that the main stream/global elites want you to!!

The EU is now backtracking and will allow ICE powered vehicles after 2030 that run on sustainable fuels, possibly to head off a push back by German manufactures who are threating to leave the EU.            

50 minutes ago, Biggles2010 said:

Lithium mining causes enormous environmental damage, but because it's in remote areas it can be conveniently hidden.

Several potential replacements for lithium ion batteries are being evaluated:

https://www.thomasnet.com/insights/7-lithium-battery-alternatives/

 

This thread is detrimental to the EV pogrom program and will be terminated. Soon. Probably. 

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by Ron Attwood
Fat finger syndrome

None of the practical aspects of EVs, such as cost, range, convenience, materials, etc., matters.  The ultimate intent is to reduce the number of people driving cars and force those people into trains and buses.  Making driving more expensive is the goal.

By the way, flying is also discouraged, and will be phased out over the next 25 years, that is, flying for the little people.  Private jets will still be allowed, as folks who can afford to use them will purchase carbon offsets.

Just read this: https://www.ukfires.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Absolute-Zero-online.pdf

Moreover, the average weight of EVs will need to be 1000kg or less.  This rules out driving a Tesla Model 3, the smallest Tesla offering, for example.

I won't even bother detailing their plans for meat consumption, again, for the little people.

Anyway, this report explains everything.  They're not hiding it any more.

Dave

7 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

This thread is detrimental to the EV pogrom program and will be terminated. Soon. Probably. 

Yeah, probably, Ron!  How many times can we beat that deader than a door nail horse??

16 minutes ago, charliearon said:

24 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

This thread is detrimental to the EV pogrom program and will be terminated. Soon. Probably. 

Yeah, probably, Ron!  How many times can we beat that deader than a door nail horse??

"It's deja vu all over again" (Yogi Berra)

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

EVs are expensive and most are still very inefficient. Those that do have a reasonable range and performance are not affordable for most working people.

 

MG EV - 30K and 550 KM range. A lot better than a Tesla for affordability. 

 

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

They are more about virtue signalling than being an acceptable replacement vehicle for the majority of car users.

 

Not really. Tesla are about to hit 2 million cars sold in 2023. In 2021 global EV car sales were 6,5 million unites. Much higher now in 2023. 1 in7 cars now globally is electric.

 

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

I suspect most users are unaware of the fire risks and electrical dangers of the battery packs.

 

Not true. BEV fires are 25 per 100,000 sales. 1,528 fires per 100,000 in terms of petrol cars.

 

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

Lithium mining causes enormous environmental damage, but because it's in remote areas it can be conveniently hidden

 

Not exactly. One third of all lithium mining is in Australia. And the environmental damage caused by the fossil fuel industry and car industry is many orders of magnitude greater. And in terms of both lithium and cobalt, its not EV owners that are to blame... all of us are to blame, because lithium and cobalt is used in numerous products that we all own. And of course cobalt is used in fossil fuel refining.

 

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

Now we find the battery packs removed from damaged EVs are already causing storage problems and this is only the beginning of EV use. What a waste of resources.

 

Not true, they aren't causing storage problems... yet. And EV batteries go on to a second life for grid and home storage. And the EU regulations coming into force regarding recycling are strict.

 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_7588

 

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

The reality will really sink in when users are unable to charge their new purchases. Most countries are already struggling with power generation.

 

Another common myth. 

https://www.whichev.net/2022/07/13/can-the-national-grid-cope-if-everyone-moves-to-evs/#:~:text=The short answer is yes,support the move to EVs.

In fact the "Smart Grid" and V2G (Vehicle to Grid) is beneficial in terms of the grid. A BEV is a very large battery backup parked on the drive. 

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions

I cant speak for the US, you'll have to do your own research in that respect. Upgrades are required, but perfectly doable. 

 

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

So called green power sources like wind have reduced somewhat in cost, but have proved unreliable

 

Not rue. Off shore wind has been remarkably successful around the world, especially in the UK. I'm presuming you are from the US, in which case 10% of your electricity is from wind and growing rapidly. Can hit 28% in the UK.

https://gwec.net/global-wind-report-2022/

 

2 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

The future for electric anything does not look as bright

 

Just plain wrong. 

 

And here's a nice video of a great new company that can recycle batteries and extract all metals, cobalt, lithium, the lot. None of the usual stuff you do in the US, where you chomp up the batteries and them send them abroad for recycling, on the contrary, her company install the recycling tech directly on site at scrap yards and recycle on site. 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, charliearon said:

Yeah, probably, Ron!  How many times can we beat that deader than a door nail horse??

 

I'll give you a GOLD cat point for your lockiness!

 

 

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by martin-w

You still need oil and gas to create all the plastics in EV's... LOL

On February 3rd, 2004, LifeLog (created by DARPA) was canceled after criticism concerning privacy.  
Ref:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_LifeLog
On February 4th, 2004, Zuckerberg launched Facebook (aka Lifelog)
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook

RJ

 

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by 3Green