49 minutes ago, GoranM said:

A company like Laminar, if they charged a subscription for streaming scenery, I could see how that works.  Ortho tiles cost money.  And LR is a private company with not as much access to those kinds of resources as Microsoft.  For Microsoft, the only reason they would do it is if they needed extra funding.  Or, and this isn't out of the question, seeing as Microsoft is a public company, to keep the shareholders happy.  It's obvious MS can afford to keep the servers running, but if they're not in the profit side, they'll find some other way to generate funds.  If it means keeping MSFS going for another 7 years, I feel safe in saying most people in here would be happy to pay a few bucks a month.

I agree. To add my twopence worth I expect that the reason the subject is being raised is peoples justifiable fear of history repeating itself and MS pulling the plug. For me a subscription would be preferable to this happening!  Also it seems to me that Asobo are slowing down and updates and improvements are not happening with the same intensity as they were. Asobo's vigour and energy is beginning to diminish. 

4 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Also it seems to me that Asobo are slowing down and updates and improvements are not happening with the same intensity as they were. Asobo's vigour and energy is beginning to diminish. 

How? They've diversified they're core updates from just world updates and sim updates to, Expert Series, World Updates, Sim Updates, Avionics & Aircraft Updates, Famous Flyers and Local Legends.

9 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

How? They've diversified they're core updates from just world updates and sim updates to, Expert Series, World Updates, Sim Updates, Avionics & Aircraft Updates, Famous Flyers and Local Legends.

Nothing specific I can put my fingers on. Just a feeling that the excitement and dynamism has gone. Though maybe that's a good thing? EDIT Or maybe it's that the excitement and newness has gone for me.

Edited March 30, 20233 yr by jarmstro

33 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Nothing specific I can put my fingers on. Just a feeling that the excitement and dynamism has gone. Though maybe that's a good thing? EDIT Or maybe it's that the excitement and newness has gone for me.

They slowed down because the faster pace was causing issues. Jorg said the team begged him to stop the monthly schedule because it was putting too much strain on them and the updates were not getting sufficient time for thorough testing. I think it was the right move because updates have been a lot smoother than they used to be.

Edited March 30, 20233 yr by Krakin

33 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Nothing specific I can put my fingers on. Just a feeling that the excitement and dynamism has gone. Though maybe that's a good thing? EDIT Or maybe it's that the excitement and newness has gone for me.

We're in a natural lull period until the next big thing from Asobo arrives (e.g. seasons / replay function / aircraft interaction with ground / camera API / weather radar).
A slower SU release schedule meant SU12 was far less problematic at release for users than a lot of previous updates. That's a 'price' worth paying.

It also appears to be a fallow period for quality add-ons from third party developers...
Flightbeam has no new info on KSFO, FlyTampa is radio silent as ever, PMDG's 777 hasn't had any teasers yet (AFAIK), Fenix's timeline for A320v2 (and other hinted aircraft) is not within its control, BlueBird/JF B757 isn't expected until late Q3 or Q4 this year, TFDi MD-11 won't arrive until September at the earliest.
Personally, iniBuilds' KJFK trailer is the most exciting add-on for a while now.

5 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Let’s save that for another thread. Not a fan of thread jacking. Yes, even though I was guilty of it a page or 2 back.  Sue me. Sometimes it pays to stay away from forums and social media after dealing with an angry customer for half an hour when the problem was a rogue plugin. 

Haha. You got the edit in before I could comment.😂

But back on topic. I would say that MSFS is not a victim of its success. It's success is due to it being the best sim available at the present time for the majority of flight simmers. Certainly in terms of value for money.

 

8 hours ago, GoranM said:

9 hours ago, Krakin said:

As I said earlier in the thread the resource they're really strapped for is time and to a lesser extent, some specialized human resources (as far as I know, they still haven't filled the position for a programmer well versed in ATC)

That, I can't comment too much on.  Personally, I think vatsim and pilot edge are far more popular than default.  But that's just my opinion.

Krakin's right on this one. Asobo's having a very difficult time hiring people. Their job postings keep recycling and the ones already there dangle for months. Now, they are fishing for significant technical know-how, but they would do well to institute a remote work option.

 

2 hours ago, tpete61 said:

Seriously, what a bunch of nonsense!!!! This is a game and she is an entertainer.

Well... technically game and entertainer go hand in hand, but aside from those synonyms, Mr Mills is well known for admiring imaginary objects of affection and having extensive conversations with AI. This is par for the course!

 

8 hours ago, jarmstro said:

You reacted badly to a perfectly reasonable and factual, evidence based post.

This is just as much about a forum bias as it is defending slander. I'm fine with commercial members defending their platform of choice. I'm surprised to see forum moderators proactively throw shade. But hey, for most of us, it's all fun and games, right???

37 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

...I would say that MSFS is not a victim of its success. It's success is due to it being the best sim available at the present time for the majority of flight simmers. Certainly in terms of value for money.

I suppose it's a "victim" to the extent its rate of growth, and hence need for server and staffing to support that growth, has brought about various stresses to continue to maintain everything and also continue advancing development of the sim.  There is no question it's the best sim available at the present time for the majority of flight simmers, and in terms of value for money it's in a class by itself.  This is also why I don't reject subscription basis should it come to that.

2 minutes ago, Noel said:

I suppose it's a "victim" to the extent its rate of growth, and hence need for server and staffing to support that growth, has brought about various stresses to continue to maintain everything and also continue advancing development of the sim.  There is no question it's the best sim available at the present time for the majority of flight simmers, and in terms of value for money it's in a class by itself.  This is also why I don't reject subscription basis should it come to that.

Maybe, but I wonder whether the connection problems are down to my poxy internet provider, Virgin Media, rather than MS?

1 minute ago, Noel said:

I suppose it's a "victim" to the extent its rate of growth, and hence need for server and staffing to support that growth

You do realize that increased growth comes with increased revenue, right? The servers are owned by the parent company and the infrastructure pays for itself in other ways. Phil Spencer described server costs as "cheap" for precisely these reasons. By this logic, Planetside 2 (a free to play game that isn't super popular) should be dead and buried by now. Noel, listen to me carefully, there is no evidence to support MS needing to rely on monthly subscriptions at this point. None at all.

Charging a sub at this point would actually hurt the sim. It is true that some people in this forum would be willing to do it, the majority of people the sim makes money from would end up dropping it. The bread and butter of the Marketplace is the more casual market. The people who probably don't know it is better to buy add-ons directly from the vendors to get modules updated faster.

MS is not dumb enough to alienate that market anymore than they are willing to start charging Minecraft users a monthly fee.

1 minute ago, Krakin said:

You do realize that increased growth comes with increased revenue, right? The servers are owned by the parent company and the infrastructure pays for itself in other ways. Phil Spencer described server costs as "cheap" for precisely these reasons. By this logic, Planetside 2 (a free to play game that isn't super popular) should be dead and buried by now. Noel, listen to me carefully, there is no evidence to support MS needing to rely on monthly subscriptions at this point. None at all.

Charging a sub at this point would actually hurt the sim. It is true that some people in this forum would be willing to do it, the majority of people the sim makes money from would end up dropping it. The bread and butter of the Marketplace is the more casual market. The people who probably don't know it is better to buy add-ons directly from the vendors to get modules updated faster.

MS is not dumb enough to alienate that market anymore than they are willing to start charging Minecraft users a monthly fee.

Krakin, listen to me carefully:  NEVER SAID they were going to a sub model now or soon or ever.  What I said was I'd happily pay to play if and when they get a sim less mared by major areas that need attention.  Get it?  I hope so...

21 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

Have a look at the steam charts. There’s no recent increase in usage. There was a moderate increase late last November when the 40th anniversary stuff released.

Since then, usage returned to baseline, with around 7000 users. 

That’s about 85% less than back in 2020, when the servers seemed to work pretty well.

According to Jorg in the clip below, MSFS has hundreds of thousands of players each day.

 

Not everyone uses steam.

You also have to consider MS Store and X-Box users, but I don't believe there's an accurate way to get those numbers.

Edited March 30, 20233 yr by Tuskin38

9 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

Not everyone uses steam.

You also have to consider MS Store and X-Box users, but I don't believe there's an accurate way to get those numbers.

Well, of course.

But Steam is the data we have.

Steam data can’t tell us the total player numbers, because we don’t know the ratio of Steam:MS Store users.

Its also useless for comparing to x-plane.

What it can be used for is looking at trends in PC users use of MSFS. And that certainly doesn’t show some recent “huge success” that would explain the server outages.

PC users:

- have DECREASED this year, not increased.

- are more or less stable over the longer erm, and have actually increased slightly over the last 12 months (with a decent bump in November after the 4-th anniversary releases)

- are down 85% from the usage seen in the first month post-release,

Steam is good data if you use it properly.

 

I did the math and what Jorg said about the sim having hundreds of thousands of players per day makes sense. Remember, when we look at steam charts, it is showing us a snapshot of concurrent players in that moment. There are 24 hours in a day and players will be coming and going throughout. It ain't 7000 people for the entire day, it's 7000 people at that time, and that's just Steam.