Though I wouldn’t be surprised if they delisted 2020 from purchase when 2024 comes out. It’s essentially the same sim but even better.

Edited June 28, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

11 hours ago, cmpbellsjc said:

I agree. For the price of admission to the new sim and either free to modest upgrade pricing to move addons from ‘20 to ‘24, I can’t imagine many staying on ‘20.

Soooo... When are we getting an MSFS 2024 dedicated forum? Now's the perfect time to get all this new info into one concise place. 😂

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

There must be a good reason for why they are going to support 2020 for years to come. But I can't think what it could be? Unless, not only will we have a new sim, but also a new way of paying for it because everything is kept on the cloud. Pay per module/feature downloaded?

I think they'll probably support MSFS 2020 for a few years after MSFS 2024. If a version is released after MSFS 2024, say MSFS 2028, I think when MSFS 2028 comes out, they will drop support for MSFS 2020.

 

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

There must be a good reason for why they are going to support 2020 for years to come. But I can't think what it could be? Unless, not only will we have a new sim, but also a new way of paying for it because everything is kept on the cloud. Pay per module/feature downloaded?

That will come down to metrics. They haven't delisted FSX so they definitely won't do that to 2020 soon after 2024 releases. If it does become a ghost town then they will see if it costs more to maintain than what it makes and make a decision from there. I predict the payment model will stay the same way it has for 2020.

"5-10x performance"... what does that even mean? That someone with now 10 FPS will have 100 FPS on MSFS 2024?
All marketing blah blah.

22 minutes ago, Krakin said:

That will come down to metrics. They haven't delisted FSX so they definitely won't do that to 2020 soon after 2024 releases. If it does become a ghost town then they will see if it costs more to maintain than what it makes and make a decision from there. I predict the payment model will stay the same way it has for 2020.

Hopefully they might offer a decent discount to 2020 owners to upgrade to 2024 to temp them away from the older platform. 
A few people have mentioned the TrainSim business model such as this, and it seems to work alright.

As for the performance increases...  Hmmm...  We can hope, but I think he meant just certain aspects of the sim, not the whole thing, as I have never heard of any performance improvements of that magnitude in any title.
 

Edited June 28, 20232 yr by bobcat999

13 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

"5-10x performance"... what does that even mean? That someone with now 10 FPS will have 100 FPS on MSFS 2024?
All marketing blah blah.

I'd assume it has more to do w/ FPS stability and less bottlenecking.

"Marketing speak" is as much on the listener as it is on the speaker, sometimes (one of the limitations of language as a form of communication). Many just assume "5x performance" is them claiming "5x framerates" without giving a second thought to it. 

7 minutes ago, Dermot McClusky said:

I'd assume it has more to do w/ FPS stability and less bottlenecking.

"Marketing speak" is as much on the listener as it is on the speaker, sometimes (one of the limitations of language as a form of communication). Many just assume "5x performance" is them claiming "5x framerates" without giving a second thought to it. 

I did give a second thought, that's why I was questioning it in the first place: A concrete number is being mentioned, "5 times"... so 5 times WHAT? "Performance" is not a unit, so that statement without a concrete number makes no sense at all and can be called out as marketing speak.
If I tell you I'll give you "5-10x financial situation", what would you be thinking of? 5x your income or wealth or something concrete you can relate to as being increased by "5-10x", wouldn't you? Or you would - rightly so - complain about that what I said makes no sense and sounds like I was selling you snakeoil?

43 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

"5-10x performance"... what does that even mean? That someone with now 10 FPS will have 100 FPS on MSFS 2024?
All marketing blah blah.

Yes and me i have 80-100 fps, i will have 800 1000 fps in 2024, cool

42 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

"5-10x performance"... what does that even mean? That someone with now 10 FPS will have 100 FPS on MSFS 2024?
All marketing blah blah.

I suspect the user won't see much in the way of a performance increase though. It sounds like this is required optimisation so they can implement the new core features on current hardware (Read Xbox Series X).

24 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

A concrete number is being mentioned, "5 times"... so 5 times WHAT? "Performance" is not a unit, so that statement without a concrete number makes no sense at all and can be called out as marketing speak.
 

Fair enough. I guess I differ in how I perceive this kind of "marketing speak" from an emotional standpoint. I read "5x performance" and think, "Oh good, they're working on improving performance. I hope that translates into something positive on the user's end" rather than, "5 times WHAT? What does this mean??!?!?" 

How did they come to those numbers? *SHRUG* I don't know. Maybe someone made them up. Maybe it's some data flow thing that I wouldn't understand, anyway. 

Point is, I see the number "5x" and just translate it to "improved performance." The proof will be in the pudding, anyway, so for now I'm just glad to hear there are potential improvements to the product. 

1 hour ago, Fiorentoni said:

"5-10x performance"... what does that even mean? That someone with now 10 FPS will have 100 FPS on MSFS 2024?
All marketing blah blah.

He means the impact of calculations.
 

Quote

 

...we're already at a four to five times performance increase. And I think we're gonna maybe get 10 […] you can easily add 10 times more surfaces, right? It's very quickly, right?

And so, I think if people add 20 times more surfaces than before, well, then you may be gonna offload, you know, load the other threads. And the more you load, the more you take away compute power for the terrain, or other stuff, right? Which is using thread.

And at some point, it's gonna have an impact. I don't think we're gonna set a limit. We're gonna limit ourselves, we're gonna have recommendations, but just like today, a third-party aircraft can do a lot of stuff. If it wants to load up the machines, it can.

 

So for example, let's say your Fenix has 100 surfaces on the CFD and you run 30 FPS.

In MSFS 2024, Aamir can change that to 1,000 surfaces to maintain 30 FPS. That's what he's trying to say, it seems.

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

"5-10x performance"... what does that even mean? That someone with now 10 FPS will have 100 FPS on MSFS 2024?
All marketing blah blah.

More on this in recent Helisimmer interview https://www.helisimmer.com/interview/msfs-2024-helicopters-future-msfs-2020 .. as some of us said above, it's not about 5-10x improvements in FPS, but that amount of improvement in physics calculations, especially due to multi-threading:

----------

Sergio: All that makes a lot of sense. With more computational power, more stuff can be done. But I started to wonder about limits. How many cores can we eventually use for this? Sebastian answered that as well:

Seb: “So, we don't have currently a hard limit set, it's just the limit of the memory. At some point, it's gonna drop the performance, right?

What we measure right now, and we're not finished optimizing, we're already at a four to five times performance increase. And I think we're gonna maybe get 10 […] you can easily add 10 times more surfaces, right? It's very quickly, right?

And so, I think if people add 20 times more surfaces than before, well, then you may be gonna offload, you know, load the other threads. And the more you load, the more you take away compute power for the terrain, or other stuff, right? Which is using thread.

And at some point, it's gonna have an impact. I don't think we're gonna set a limit. We're gonna limit ourselves, we're gonna have recommendations, but just like today, a third-party aircraft can do a lot of stuff. If it wants to load up the machines, it can.

Memory can be a limit because that would crash. But performance, well... There's no limit.

Also, the new aerodynamics is a lot cheaper on memory than before. Like, this is three or four times cheaper, right? In terms of memory footprint. Which is also necessary because otherwise, if you put more stuff, then you run into memory issues. So, we optimize that as well.”
 

Edited June 28, 20232 yr by lwt1971

So they can do more with the physics without having to worry about performance impact?

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

So they can do more with the physics without having to worry about performance impact?

Right exactly... quite likely more with the physics, and doing all that with less impact than 2020 currently.

Edited June 28, 20232 yr by lwt1971