15 minutes ago, oldflyguy70 said:

I agree with @jarmstro.  Everything important - flight model, systems - is built "outside" of Asobo (my limited understanding of modeling prevents a better description 😁). And it shows.  None of the payware I've purchased so far - except for PMDG (and that's a different animal) comes close to this.  To the point I don't really enjoy "flying" them.

Hopefully this will be a benchmark and that all future releases will have to meet this standard. I include XP because I've spent too much on duds over the years.

A similar approach was initially followed by Majestic with the Q-400 which relied on an external FM based on JSBSim ( Flight Gear is one of the fightsims that also use JSBSim but  JSBSim can be run standalone with no visuals ).

I use mostly MFS these days, because of the functionality, scenery and smothness. But I find X-Plane's flight dynamics superior in many aspects, so, I have though of a cross-platform solution, allowing to fly XP with MFS visuals. I really don't recall if X-Plane's core FM + Weather Engine can be run on a "data-only" mode, no visuals being rendered? That would be an interesting experience because it could allow one to port the preferred XP creations to MFS's World ...

And since we're talking cross-platform solutions, P3D is also used professionally just as a visuals simulation. I have used ELITE IFT and XTS with P3D v4 and v5 for the visuals only, as well as Aerowinx PS1 and PSX with FSX, P3D, XP10, 11 and 12 and MFS 2020...

I believe that in XP's World there are also at least a couple examples of aircraft running at least partially out of the core simulation, namely FF's A320 U and the FlyInside helis for XP. I own the FF  A320 U but never bought the FlyInside because I honestly think XP has a very good rotary wing FM built natively. 

Edited July 20, 20232 yr by jcomm

It's my understanding that many of the professional training systems use external flight models specific to the given aircraft to achieve even better flight characteristics. 

1 hour ago, brinx said:

It's my understanding that many of the professional training systems use external flight models specific to the given aircraft to achieve even better flight characteristics. 

For big Airbus/Boeing trainers almost every aspect is developed separately, as far as the systems go they are the same as actually used in the real aircraft, so any software comes from the manufacturer (honeywell, rockwell collins, Rolls Royce GE etc etc)

wired up with CIGI/HLA/DIS

see also

https://www.sisostds.org/

Smaller manufacturers tend not to have official sims, many have been building their official sim with xplane.

Edited July 20, 20232 yr by mSparks

5 hours ago, jarmstro said:

It's down to the developer and the effort they are prepared to put in.

 

4 hours ago, oldflyguy70 said:

Everything important - flight model, systems - is built "outside" of Asobo

 

So A2A are not using the default FM? Correct?

He complimented pitch-power on final.

39 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

 

 

So A2A are not using the default FM? Correct?

He complimented pitch-power on final.

A2A don't do flight models based on the core sim its done external from far back as FS9 FSX P3D etc. If they ventured in Xplane they would do the same there to.

47 minutes ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

A2A don't do flight models based on the core sim its done external from far back as FS9 FSX P3D etc. If they ventured in Xplane they would do the same there to.

How we've arrived at the point of being able to shamelessly post full product reviews that have zero connection to XP in an XP forum, is a different story. Some of us get punished just for posting 'gossip' about XP over yonder forum.

But yeah, that's what I figured. Just repeating that the default 2020/4 FM isn't much to write home about. As for if they ever ventured into XP.... based on what he's shown in his C172 vid, chances are very high that they wouldn't need to deviate from the core sim if/when that ever happens.

1 minute ago, blingthinger said:

How we've arrived at the point of being able to shamelessly post full product reviews that have zero connection to XP in an XP forum, is a different story. Some of us get punished just for posting 'gossip' about XP over yonder forum.

But yeah, that's what I figured. Just repeating that the default 2020/4 FM isn't much to write home about. As for if they ever ventured into XP.... based on what he's shown in his C172 vid, chances are very high that they wouldn't need to deviate from the core sim if/when that ever happens.

Don't know what the point you are trying to make but it dosen't matter as far as A2A they are a commercial developer that happend to made a entertainment product for MS or that other platform (to prove a realistic point) you recall. A2A deviates from all sims regarding FM and XPlane is no exception. That is their Professional experience and are paid that way this is just entertainment for them.

1 hour ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

A2A deviates from all sims regarding FM and XPlane is no exception.

Do they have a XP product? Have they ever discussed one? In particular, discussing what they would do for the FM if they did develop one?

The answer to the first question is 'No', correct?

I have no doubt they deviate from default fsx/p3d/asobo. That much is obvious even without comparing to XP.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by blingthinger

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Do they have a XP product? Have they ever discussed one? In particular, discussing what they would do for the FM if they did develop one?

The answer to the first question is 'No', correct?

I have no doubt they deviate from default fsx/p3d/asobo. That much is obvious even without comparing to XP.

Ok dude whatever you say. No probably A2A does not have a flight model for XP but do not need one to succeed either. They are one of the best Peirod in sim dev whatever you want to believe it or not. Don't be so insecure to a certain sim product design for any platform and stop being thin skinned to a platform that does not suit you, that is a fact. No chest pumping here.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by JBDB-MD80

21 minutes ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Ok dude whatever you say. No probably A2A does not have a flight model for XP but do not need one to succeed either. They are one of the best Peirod in sim dev whatever you want to believe it or not. Don't be so insecure to a certain sim product design for any platform. No chest pumping here.

Oh I'm chest pumping for sure, for XP, but that's not the point of my last post. I'm just trying to understand your logic. You've said they don't use default FM for any platforms they sell products for. They don't dev or sell for XP and therefore probably don't care one bit about the XP FM. Got it.

I'm saying if they ever do dev for XP, they might try the default and decide that they don't need to avoid the default as they've had to do everywhere else.

A2A obviously does a fantastic job. I fully agree on that one.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by blingthinger

7 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Oh I'm chest pumping for sure,

Don't do that or that results into cardiac arrest or a stroke. Believe or not there are  exceptional flight models outside of X on a pixellated screen. and the mass audience is taking notice of it but ok whatever make you sleep better at night. no more post here. I will go now

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by JBDB-MD80

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Have they ever discussed one?

Yes a few years before MS jumped back in the game, a lot of people on their forums were asking them to bring their products to XP, including me. I don’t remember the exact wording but I recall them saying in effect that they couldn’t justify the effort to bring the accusim philosophy to XP given a pretty sizable difference in developing for the XP platform vs what they had already invested in the FSX/ESP platform.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by snglecoil

In my experience, and knowing quite a few commercial developers, no X-Plane add on has ever had to use some kind of external flight model to make an aircraft fly correctly.  

Even the CL650, which has been tested and scrutinized by several CL pilots, have given the CL flight model their seal of approval.  We used the X-Plane flight model as a container for the add on.  It's the only area of the add on that wasn't externally customized.  Everything else is plugin driven.

If an aircraft add on does not fly correctly in X-Plane, it's because of an error on the developers part.  It could be incorrect engine parameters, airfoils, fuselage shape, whatever.  If everything is done correctly, the flight model will match, quite closely (and I use that term as a disclaimer), the real world counterpart.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by GoranM

3 hours ago, blingthinger said:

I'm saying if they ever do dev for XP, they might try the default and decide that they don't need to avoid the default as they've had to do everywhere else

I doubt that. Even X-Plane FM is generic while the A2A FM is very specific for the aircraft they model, especially when it's modelled after one they own and operate regularly like the Comanche.