CTD's all the time now!

[air-ick 79]

2 hours ago, tfm said:

To my way of thinking, this demonstrates conclusively that the problem is somewhere in your kit.

Even modern solid state components can come with defects, or develop them with time. I’ve been lucky recently but in the past I’ve experienced issues with RAM and a GPU.

They took ages to track down, but with hindsight it seems obvious: if it were a bug, then it would affect large numbers of users. The core reason it took ages to track down turns out to have been that I just didn’t want to accept that there might be something fundamentally broken with my kit.

I don't disagree with what you're saying to the extent that not everyone is being affected by this bug, but here's my point; my system didn't change one single bit when these crashes started, and MS had just released a major update. If I were the only one complaining about this then I would fully expect that the problem is with my system. I think the fact that my specs match up with @sniper31 is more of a coincidence than anything. I don't think it's a coincidence that this happened literally overnight with the installation of SU13. If you haven't already, read through the thread on the MS forum and you'll see that people with varying systems are experiencing this bug. MS/Asobo is aware and presumably working on it. After all, it's #4 on the bug list!

Here's a link to the discussion. The OP changed the thread's name to better represent the fact that as more people started experiencing it, it wasn't just happening around Lake Constance. Someone else just reported this problem and they're running an RTX 2060, so I don't think it has anything to do with my 4090. And as part of my trouble shooting process, I tried a number of older video drivers and I still had crashes.

Sim crashes when zooming in at the worldmap - Bug Reports / Crashes (CTDs) - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

As I've already stated, the only relief I get is when I limit my download speed, which, although it hasn't eliminated the CTDs completely, has reduced them significantly. A few weeks back, someone in that thread took an informal poll and determined that everyone who was having CTDs was on a high-speed, fiber optic line. Obviously, a very small sample group and totally unscientific but that's how the "limiting your download speed" started. The general consensus is that the only way to eliminate them completely is to turn off Bing data. I've not heard of one user who's done that and has still experienced a crash so I hope that's where the focus is at MS/Asobo.

Believe me, I'm fully aware of how finicky our PCs can be at times and how one bug doesn't affect everyone equally. But I think the evidence is starting to pile up that this is a problem on MS/Asobo's end, not ours.

Edited November 13, 2023 by air-ick

[andy1252 3,880]

42 minutes ago, CarlosF said:

I'm on a 3k series video card. It seems that the ones with high end cards (4k series) are the ones with the issues.

I was getting them with my 3090. Not getting them so much now and I really haven't been doing anything except going through my setup and uninstalling all the various MSFS extras that I'm never going to use (landing challenges, discovery flights etc). Personally, I still suspect server-side issues

[Gate99 246]

As there are so many variables that can cause issues with MSFS the first thing I would do stress test your computer with appropriate software for a few hours to rule it out as being the cause. My system is similar to yours and I haven't had any issues with crashes.

[sniper31 639]

2 hours ago, air-ick said:

Believe me, I'm fully aware of how finicky our PCs can be at times and how one bug doesn't affect everyone equally. But I think the evidence is starting to pile up that this is a problem on MS/Asobo's end, not ours.

Well said 😉

 

[St Mawgan 1,377]

Just when I thought I was out! I'm getting the similar CTD when zooming on the world map now. This is absolutely not a hardware issue!

[sniper31 639]

Well guys, just a little update. I spent yesterday judiciously reinstalling MSFS into a vanilla state. I have installed NO WU's. Since then, I have run a batch of test flights in pure default aircraft, with NO addons installed, and not even using my TrackIR. Some with flight plans, and some without. 

It has not gone well. I have had a host of CTD's, all with the same error code that I have been getting. I have a spare motherboard, RAM and video card that I can swap out, so that is the next step I am looking at. It's an Intel 13900k setup that ran very well for me before I installed my 7800 X3D setup. I've used the 4090 on both setups without issue. I hate to have to go this route, but by doing so it will rule out several hardware possibilities (bad stick of RAM, motherboard issue, bios issue, video card issue etc.). After doing that hardware swap, if I still have the same CTD then it is either a Windows problem, OR MSFS is bugged. There can be no other possibility at that point.

So, I will report back in a few days in this thread after I go through this process. Stay tuned...

[air-ick 79]

3 minutes ago, sniper31 said:

Well guys, just a little update. I spent yesterday judiciously reinstalling MSFS into a vanilla state. I have installed NO WU's. Since then, I have run a batch of test flights in pure default aircraft, with NO addons installed, and not even using my TrackIR. Some with flight plans, and some without. 

It has not gone well. I have had a host of CTD's, all with the same error code that I have been getting. I have a spare motherboard, RAM and video card that I can swap out, so that is the next step I am looking at. It's an Intel 13900k setup that ran very well for me before I installed my 7800 X3D setup. I've used the 4090 on both setups without issue. I hate to have to go this route, but by doing so it will rule out several hardware possibilities (bad stick of RAM, motherboard issue, bios issue, video card issue etc.). After doing that hardware swap, if I still have the same CTD then it is either a Windows problem, OR MSFS is bugged. There can be no other possibility at that point.

So, I will report back in a few days in this thread after I go through this process. Stay tuned...

I must sound like a broken record by now, but have you tried limiting the download speed of your network card or turning off Bing data in the sim? I see that you too are using a very high-speed connection, which seems to be a common element amongst those of us with this issue. I don't have enough of my old components to rebuild my old system, but I don't blame you for trying. I'd do the same thing just to be able to rule out my PC. Maybe I'll try to find some new burn-in software and stress test my system. I still don't think that I'm the problem, but I am trying to keep an open mind.

[sniper31 639]

2 minutes ago, air-ick said:

I must sound like a broken record by now, but have you tried limiting the download speed of your network card or turning off Bing data in the sim? I see that you too are using a very high-speed connection, which seems to be a common element amongst those of us with this issue. I don't have enough of my old components to rebuild my old system, but I don't blame you for trying. I'd do the same thing just to be able to rule out my PC. Maybe I'll try to find some new burn-in software and stress test my system. I still don't think that I'm the problem, but I am trying to keep an open mind.

Here's the thing with limiting my download speed. Why, all of a sudden since SU13 would this be an issue. My download speed is not new, I've had this level of speed for three years now. It never caused any issues in MSFS before. But, to answer your question about Bing data off, yes, I have tried that, and I have still had the same SU13 CTD regardless. Plus, what is the point of using MSFS if I cannot have Bing data on. With it off, it looks very FSX/P3D looking. Not what I am after.

[Brocky120 64]

1) Reset your BIOS first

2) Reinstall Windows if that fails

 

Have you ever run any de bloat software or performed any windows tweaks etc?

[air-ick 79]

1 minute ago, sniper31 said:

Here's the thing with limiting my download speed. Why, all of a sudden since SU13 would this be an issue. My download speed is not new, I've had this level of speed for three years now. It never caused any issues in MSFS before. But, to answer your question about Bing data off, yes, I have tried that, and I have still had the same SU13 CTD regardless. Plus, what is the point of using MSFS if I cannot have Bing data on. With it off, it looks very FSX/P3D looking. Not what I am after.

I should have clarified that I was just curious if you had done it for testing purposes since I agree that these are not solutions. I still have Bing data on, and full-speed access set up on my PC, as well. I was just curious if it had made a difference in your CTDs.

[sniper31 639]

2 minutes ago, air-ick said:

I should have clarified that I was just curious if you had done it for testing purposes since I agree that these are not solutions. I still have Bing data on, and full-speed access set up on my PC, as well. I was just curious if it had made a difference in your CTDs.

Gotcha 😉

 

[RJC68 823]

I have also seen more CTD's since SU13, not as bad as some poor souls here but there is definitely something going on that is sim related. My PC was built specifically for MSFS 2020 and does nothing else, Stock Win 11 & MSFS and has always been very stable. I have tried all the regular fixes documented in this thread but what I still find surprising is that after 8 pages of people stating these CTD's have either started or gotten worse post SU13 there are still comments by others offering nothing useful whatsoever and just stating that "it must be your hardware" or "Well I haven't had a CTD in years"

That is really helping everyone !

 

[Gate99 246]

40 minutes ago, RJC68 said:

but what I still find surprising is that after 8 pages of people stating these CTD's have either started or gotten worse post SU13 there are still comments by others offering nothing useful whatsoever and just stating that "it must be your hardware" or "Well I haven't had a CTD in years"

That is really helping everyone !

Nothing useful? I disagree. It's pointing out the fact that there appears to be something else here at play apart from the SU being a direct cause of msfs crashes.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Gate99
additional text added

[mmcmah 408]

As the OP of a different but similar thread, I thought I would summarize my learnings:

1. CTDs happen much more frequently after SU13
2. They often happen when zooming in and out on the World Map (might be ameliorated by switching to IFR view instead of satellite view and/or turning the weather layer off)
3. They also frequently happen about 75-80% of the way through the loading of a flight (after pressing "FLY")
   • These seem to be made less frequent if you wait 45-60 seconds after selecting everything in the World Map (including the aircraft) before you press FLY
   • They are made much less frequent (if not altogether eliminated) by turning off the Bing Data World Graphics option (which also turns off Photogrammetry)
   • They can also be reduced by changing the NIC speed
4. They sometime happen if you've successfully loaded but are switching camera views too quickly or panning too quickly and in my case, they have happened shortly after loading in

Number 3 is the one that I want to focus on. I have a gigabit fiber connection, and as others have indicated above, it seems to be a common issue with the CTDs that occur on loading or early in the flight. The previous suggestion that I had seen was to change your NIC from 1.0Gbps/Auto to 100Mbps. It made a difference but wasn't 100% certain to work.

Last night I again got a couple of CTDs even with that option selected. It got me thinking about the recommended internet connection that Microsoft lists and I think it's 25Mbps. As such, I decided to try today by selecting 100Mbit HALF DUPLEX option for my NIC, instead of the 100Mbit FULL DUPLEX option I had been selecting previously. To my great surprise, 15 sim starts, loads and sim restarts across very different third-party airport sceneries (KJFK, KDEN, EGLL) and with third-party aircraft (Kodiak and HPG H160) all loaded successfully and without any artificial pause on my part between selecting the airport and pressing FLY.

I, for one, attribute this to a network processing, error/timeout handling issue on the part of MS/Asobo and not due to everyone's individual PCs.

[scotchegg 4,187]

Also heavily affected by map zooming ctds. Not a fix, not always reliable, but I have found zooming slowly and then waiting about 30 secs before pressing Fly after choosing departure / parking slot reduces ctd frequency.