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Still no historical weather options for MSFS?

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3 hours ago, fsiscool said:

One thing to note though is, that any particular night weather condition during the day is never completely wrong. Just less likely. Because in any season the exact weather conditions that can occur during the night, can also occur during the day.

While this is true for some regions, it is just plain wrong in this generality.

 

3 hours ago, guenseli said:

Of course that is absolutely not true. maybe depends where you live.

We have here (in germany) in spring and autumn in the morning very often mist. This mist is gone few hours after sunrise.
When yourself look at weather in MSFS in night, you will also see, that night is often more cloudy or vice versa.

It is not completely wrong in the aspect, that it is winter, despite if its day or not. But otherwise there's a big difference here

This.

Or to give another example think of a high desert climate where you can expect freezing temperatures at night and heat at noon.

 

3 hours ago, Daube said:

If you can't understand that weather at night is not the same as weather at day, then we can't do much more for you. I understand it doesn't matter for you. You can enjoy flying with any weather even if it doesn't make any sense, which basically means you simply DON'T need real weather at all. Something like "random weather" would be just fine for you, right ?

This sums it up nicely. When you don't feel the need for historical weather because you want to just cope with the weather as is regardless if it is plausible or not, then you don't need live weather either. Just some random weather would do.

In the end there is no antagonism between live weather and historical weather. Both are snapshots of the real worldwide weather at some specific point in time. Live weather is just a special case of historical weather: the corresponding time is now and not some time in the past.

 

Edited by RALF9636
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59 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

In the end there is no antagonism between live weather and historical weather. Both are snapshots of the real worldwide weather at some specific point in time. Live weather is just a special case of historical weather: the corresponding time is now and not some time in the past.

But there is a huge difference between delivering ONE snapshot to everyone worldwide at the same time versus being able to deliver any possible snapshot that occurred between now and some time in the past called up by thousands  users all at the same time.   What do you suppose it takes to serve up the latter, to anyone anywhere who wishes to summon it up.  24h worth of historical weather? How often is it captured and stored to deliver:  every 1 minute, one hour?

I appreciate what people are seeking but having no real need for historical weather is not the same has having "random" weather because locale certainly flavors the range of weather possible in a given local.  Having summertime midday temperatures in Death Valley is not going to happen at night in Helsinki where I'm headed right now.  Outside of staying within that range it's true, I don't really need weather connected to time of day, at least I haven't yet because as VGBaron points out it all depends on how one uses the simulator.

Right now I'm taxiing out of EHAM in the WT 787.  Actual local time was around 3:30pm as I initially launched the flight.  Because I wanted to arrive to Helsinki sometime around dusk I moved the time slider back a couple hours.  This has no significant impact on the weather I will encounter, and this is how it always is. 

Edited by Noel
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Noel

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41 minutes ago, Noel said:

What do you suppose it takes to serve up the latter, to anyone anywhere who wishes to summon it up.

Not too much, when a small private company like HIFI simulations could do that since years.

Its only some data, no pictures, videos, etc. The amount of stored data could not be that much.
the interpretation of that data is then the same procedure as with current live weather

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Guenter Steiner
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I do not see why this is such a problem for some people. I have no need whatsoever for historical weather, but I understand that it is very important for others.

Edited by Christopher Low
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Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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7 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Not too much, when a small private company like HIFI simulations could do that since years.

Its only some data, no pictures, videos, etc. The amount of stored data could not be that much.
the interpretation of that data is then the same procedure as with current live weather

I wondered about that as well, but what we don't know is how possible this would be in MSFS w/ its particular weather generation approach.   I see historical weather got over 500 votes as a wishlist item.  If this is fairly simple to do what do we suppose the reason Asobo has seemingly not pursued the idea?  Perhaps it's as this person supposed, 

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/640829-still-no-historical-weather-options-for-msfs/?do=findComment&comment=5048965

HiFi in P3D, at least pre v6, called up "weather" as 2D cloud sprites, winds, etc present in the install, not streamed to everyone worldwide, so it's hardly an apt comparison.


Noel

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2 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

While this is true for some regions, it is just plain wrong in this generality.

It might be not true in all cases but it might be a plausible explanation for the weather you get in the majority of cases.

And if we exclude cases where the difference between day and night mostly is a different temperature (something which is not visible and for most of the flights has only a minor impact), we can even say, that in the overwhelming majority of cases the weather in the sim could be realistic.

(I don not want to play down the need for this feature. I just wonder about the right priority and urgency. I can imagine, that in MSFS 2020 this will not be adressed anymore and my explanation could be one of the justifications behind that decision).

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7 hours ago, Lonesome Cowboy Burt said:

Try this: set overcast preset - bring the overcast down to ground level - set percentage 80 - 85% and play with the density and scatter setting.

Sure, I know how to use the weather settings.  But there are two problems with this method: first, you're just being forced to take a guess on what looks "about right" when defining visibility; you cannot actually specify a visibility value, which is a basic function of the visuals system of any simulator.

Secondly, there's still variability.  I can set any manual weather conditions I want, with 100% coverage and 0% scatter, and conditions will still vary up and down a bit.

Being able to define a visibility value and actually have it apply, accurately, to the visual representation of the outside world, is a very basic function of anything trying to be a simulator (same goes for ceiling).  Yes, none of these desktop "sims" are really anything other than games, but even within that understanding, this is a very basic function to be missing, considering every piece of competitor software does it correctly (to include much earlier versions of MS's own.)

But here we are, sitting on the runway adjusting sliders and counting runway lights, trying to precisely set a visibility that we know won't remain the same anyway...

The really annoying thing is, 2020 does a really great job depicting fog and low vis when it comes from a METAR value.  So what I want to know is, why can't we do it with a user-defined value?

Edited by Stearmandriver
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Andrew Crowley

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I still cannot move to MSFS without some more weather-related functionality.  Historical weather basically enables me to do long-haul flights (save and resume, plan now, fly later etc), not to mention the extremely obvious difference between day and night weather when flying in different parts of the world.  How the MSFS developers are so clueless about its use baffles me.

I sincerely hope to see some better functionality - historical weather, weather radar, cloud types etc.

I feel as if the arrival of MSFS has not necessairly been great for "dull" simmers like myself that value some of these features.  I feel MSFS is program that is designed to satisfy the majority of simmers, as opposed to striving for accuracy and useful features for its more "hardcore" users.

PS - has anyone tried Xenviro or REX or anything that has historical weather with MSFS?

Edited by VHOJT
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On 12/30/2023 at 6:55 AM, Noel said:

HiFi in P3D, at least pre v6, called up "weather" as 2D cloud sprites, winds, etc present in the install, not streamed to everyone worldwide, so it's hardly an apt comparison.

We "call up" weather how the sim depicts it.  3D clouds in P5, P6 and XP12.  Surface data, aloft data, grib, sigmets/airmets, TAF forecasts, storms, whatever, it all can be stored in temporal snapshots at whatever resolution(s), and resolution is really the only factor here that makes it more complicated depending on the end depiction considerations.

If we were allowed to control weather using SDK/API, we could easily implement such.  Kind of like we did in XP12, P5 and P6.  The only reason we can't is because we have no access to wx writes by policy as you know (which as you also know I at least partially credit to public sentiment against such).  Now, we can in theory provide preset weather control, like some others have, with historical weather, and we might.  But that's globalized weather, without regional variation as per live weather, and of course many don't want that.  The very negative criticism of that approach that we witnessed has prevented us from it thus far.  But we are still considering it.

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Damian Clark
HiFi  Simulation Technologies

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On 12/30/2023 at 6:49 AM, Christopher Low said:

I do not see why this is such a problem for some people. I have no need whatsoever for historical weather, but I understand that it is very important for others.

Despite the denial of such, there is a pretty big campaign against us or other wx developers EVER being allowed to participate in MSFS again.  It's a huge problem for this very small, very vocal group of people.  My theory is that they blame weather add-ons for stifling weather development in the other simulators of the past, and misguidedly believe that exclusion is best for everyone, so that they force the sim developer to handle it themselves.  Or to put it another way, they want everything Active Sky ever did (and every thing it ever worked on for future) to be completely free, totally integrated, and only other add-ons other than weather shall be allowed to do anything beyond the scope of the internal simulator, so that MSFS2020 weather evolves to completion. Fair enough, that can be understood.  Now that MSFS2020 does a lot of what AS did, eliminating the need for AS legacy, perhaps those folks might consider, is it OK now that weather add-on developers can be considered for inclusion?  We'd love to release a new AS for FS.  We'd love the opportunity to participate too.  We've got lots of features in mind that you aren't even imagining yet, that would greatly improve your flight sim experience.  MS/Asobo can't/won't do everything that everyone wants.  That's what add-ons are for.  Historical is just one small possibility.  There are many more.

Edited by Damian Clark
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Damian Clark
HiFi  Simulation Technologies

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@Damian Clark nice to hear/read from you here! I miss the Hifi testing a lot!

Do you have any direct contact to MS/Asobo/Jörg Neumann? If not, do you have any channels tried to get in touch with them?


Guenter Steiner
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Hi Guenter, really great to hear from you!

Of course.

 

Edited by Damian Clark

Damian Clark
HiFi  Simulation Technologies

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I don't get, either, the short sight of some users regarding the kind of weather functionality that tools like Active Sky do for simulators like FSX, P3D and XP.

Thankfully I run those other sims too, so, and AS does it's best job in P3D and now also in P3D v6, so I'm fine while I play those sims.

It's deeply missed by me, and although I use MFS with great pleasure in some aspects, I feel the various limitations of not being able to access the functionalities that Active Sky provides me with in P3D and XP.

I hope the contract they supposedly have with Meteoblue doesn't tie them to the same solution with MFS2024,,,

Edited by jcomm
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I think it's pretty clear that weather write access will not be coming any time soon.  I do think they considered it quite a bit at different points, but public sentiment is so vocally against it, I would not blame them for dismissing this.  Of course contractual issues may be the reason as has been suspected.  Who knows.  

Using "extra-SDK" techniques aka hacking to control weather is likely all we will ever have IMO.  So unfortunate.  It could have been so great!

Maybe if the tide turns and public sentiment is more favorable to weather add-ons, or some contractual factors change, we'll get another chance (as users).  HiFi will likely be long gone by then, of course, but it will still be great for everyone to have this one day.

Edited by Damian Clark
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Damian Clark
HiFi  Simulation Technologies

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@Damian Clark, you've been doing - since ages! - for FSX, P3D and recently XP although this one with SDK limitations too, more than what Meteoblue does for MFS... for instance in terms of coherent cloud type and coverage above MSA...

The whole MFS user community would be thankful if they could get what AS gives his users in P3D and somehow in XP11 and 12 too....

Let's hope for the best !

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