On 7/4/2024 at 7:25 AM, IanHarrison said:

I have managed to get it to work (sort of). But it is messing up so many things, like mouse control, task bar and also blocking access to 2nd screen apps,.that it is not worth it.

Enable Multi-display Mode in the Lossless Scaling settings. 

Edited July 8, 20241 yr by PinkPony

11 hours ago, PinkPony said:

Enable Multi-display Mode in the Lossless Scaling settings. 

I did and it makes absolutely no difference.

13 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

I did and it makes absolutely no difference.

Ian, try also disabling “Clip Cursor”. 

Been having a further play around and found the following.

I was able to use "RivaTuner Statistics Server (RTSS) version 7.3.6 from Guru3D.com to successful control the sim frame rate outside of the sim itself (on the fly so to speak).

Means i can set the Nvida control panel (NCP) frame rate limiter to off and just use RTSS, where I can easily set 30 or 20 fps for 2X or 3X Lossless Scaling frame generation (FG) operation while live in the sim, (instead of needing to change the frame rate in the NCP and restart the sim).

For myself, I found the trick is to use the RTSS frame rate limiter option of "NVIDIA Reflex", being the NVIDA's rate limiter and is actually intended to be used with frame generation..

Also if your sim can mange 30 fps (without FG), the 2 x with Vsync on a 60 Hz screen mode does greatly cut down on frame generation artefacts while providing a very smooth flying expierience.

Cheers

10 hours ago, Rogen said:

For myself, I found the trick is to use the RTSS frame rate limiter option of "NVIDIA Reflex", being the NVIDA's rate limiter and is actually intended to be used with frame generation.

Did you try front-edge sync? This is what I use, after reading about this in the MSFS forum here. I'm applying this to all my sims (FSX and later). I'm getting a very smooth frametime graph, but YMMV.

On 7/15/2024 at 10:58 PM, Luis Hernandez said:

Did you try front-edge sync? This is what I use, after reading about this in the MSFS forum here. I'm applying this to all my sims (FSX and later). I'm getting a very smooth frametime graph, but YMMV.

Yes, I did trial front-edge sync, however noticed nothing of note, in anycase after reviewing the documentation its usage senario doesn't really apply when using Frame Generation.

When reading the RTSS docs, "NVIDIA Reflex" is intended for the use of FG and also has some very specific management options.

but hey... I suppose it depends on what GFX card is in use, and all in all... whatever works best for your system 🙂

I find as long as the PC can maintain the framerate I've set the sim to run at, frame generation will bring the display up to the vsync level and the sim will be very smooth.

The moment the sim is overloaded and its framerate drops, so too does the vsync drop out, meaning vsync smoothness is lost, so it's important to keep the frame rate to practical levels that can be maintained.

For myself I find 30 fps (for x2 to a 60 Hz vsync) and 20 fps (for a x3 to a 60 Hz vsync), covers all use senarios so far, from normal to heavy hitting.

Cheers

PS.  Further trialing of front-edge sync is showing a significant increase in main thread use (p3d v5.3HF2), to the point of driving the main thread to 100%, looks like about ~10% extra, swapping to NVIDIA Reflex removes this overhead.

Edited July 17, 20241 yr by Rogen
new info added

On 7/17/2024 at 8:55 AM, Rogen said:

PS.  Further trialing of front-edge sync is showing a significant increase in main thread use (p3d v5.3HF2), to the point of driving the main thread to 100%, looks like about ~10% extra, swapping to NVIDIA Reflex removes this overhead.

I found out the main thread reaching 100% is the intended operation when Active Waiting is enabled i.e. when "Enable passive waiting" is not checked.

The purpose being to artifically drive the main thread to 100% so it's always running flat out to prevent down throttling to lower clock rates and then having to ramp up again like in a roller coaster effect.

All in the aid for smoother framerate pacing it seems, could be the reason for some people seeing smoother operations when the frame rate limiter is set to front edge sync. For myself it has no effect other than to drive the CPU to 100% as my machine is base overclocked and includes a bitsum highest power plan and always stays at the highest clock speed anyway.

Also when NVIDIA reflex is enabled RTSS is no longer using its internal timer mechanisims and thus those wait settings don't apply.

Cheers

 

 

28 minutes ago, Rogen said:

The purpose being to artifically drive the main thread to 100% so it's always running flat out to prevent down throttling to lower clock rates and then having to ramp up again like in a roller coaster effect.

All in the aid for smoother framerate pacing it seems, could be the reason for some people seeing smoother operations when the frame rate limiter is set to front edge sync. For myself it has no effect other than to drive the CPU to 100% as my machine is base overclocked and includes a bitsum highest power plan and always stays at the highest clock speed anyway.

With Scanline Sync (back in my old laptop, when I used X/2), the main thread usage was stuck at 100%. But that 100% was an artificial one; i.e., after executing all frame operations, RTSS added a wait cycle for filling up the remaining frame time. That's so that no other processes would use that thread and what you say (prevent throttling to lower clocks). You could see it because temperatures were lower than removing the FPS lock (which would genuinely drive main thread to 100%).

I don't know if this is the case with Active Waiting enabled.

Edited July 19, 20241 yr by Luis Hernandez

Best 6GBP I've ever spent! Thanks @Rogen. 👏

I set things up as you recommended. Monitor changed to 60Hz. RTSS frame rate set to 20 and x3 selected in the LLS app.

I started by positioning at SimWings Heathrow in the PMDG737 and removing the Ai limiter of 160 in FSUIPC. I'd found that's the maximum number of Ai I could load whilst still maintaining 30fps with 30Hz.

With that limit removed the Ai count went to 220 which includes Gatwick, Stansted and Luton but the vast majority are at or close to Heathrow.

I planned EGLL-LFPG which are two very demanding airports. Taxiing out and taking off was totally fluid with 20/60 shown in the readout throughout.

Approaching 26L at T2G LFPG there was a brief stutter as scenery was loaded. I get the same at Heathrow. fps dropped very briefly to 16/48. Within a couple of seconds it had recovered to 20/60 and stayed there until I parked at a gate.

Other benefits of 60Hz are the internal panning, road traffic moving more fluidly and even GSX jetway guide numbers counting down more fluidly.

A great piece of software and can be recommended for all P3D users.

Bit more experimenting. Loaded the XP Lear25 at London City. Scenery Complexity was Dense. Increased it to Extremely Dense and fps remained rock solid at 20/60.

Finally, loaded FS Labs Concorde at 27L Heathrow and with Dense for Scenery Complexity still 20/60. That's with Orbx True Earth Britain too.

I don't often describe things as a game changer but this is definitely one.

13 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Bit more experimenting. Loaded the XP Lear25 at London City. Scenery Complexity was Dense. Increased it to Extremely Dense and fps remained rock solid at 20/60.

Finally, loaded FS Labs Concorde at 27L Heathrow and with Dense for Scenery Complexity still 20/60. That's with Orbx True Earth Britain too.

I don't often describe things as a game changer but this is definitely one.

I am happy that it worked for you. For me, it completely messes up my second monitor. I am unable to use my mouse to click on anything including the taskbar on my primary display.

Good job it was not too pricey. Just the cost of an OAP car valet!

Edited July 26, 20241 yr by IanHarrison
Additional comment.

@IanHarrison, I have one display so that’s the reason I’ve not had the problems you describe.

What do you run on your second screen? Moving map such as LittleNavmap? If so have you considered using a second computer networked and with WideFS?

It doesn’t have to be anything special. Even a laptop would do. Once you revert to a single display your fps will be transformed.

Does someone use it with 3 screens and a view group setup? If yes, please share your experience.

Thanks!

Ruediger

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@IanHarrison, I have one display so that’s the reason I’ve not had the problems you describe.

What do you run on your second screen? Moving map such as LittleNavmap? If so have you considered using a second computer networked and with WideFS?

It doesn’t have to be anything special. Even a laptop would do. Once you revert to a single display your fps will be transformed.

I don't have a laptop just the one desktop, so I'm afraid I am stuck.

32 minutes ago, IanHarrison said:

I don't have a laptop just the one desktop, so I'm afraid I am stuck.

A second-hand laptop or desktop shouldn't cost much. If it costs 200GBP that is a fraction of the cost of the hardware required to give you fps of this magnitude via conventional hardware.

I consider it equivalent to doubling the power of my i9-13900K @ 5.5MHz.

Not only has 30fps become 60fps but I can increase Scenery Complexity from Dense to Extremely Dense and still get 60.