6 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

There have been over 10,000 737s delivered.

If it were unsafe, we'd know about it, and Airbus would be miles and miles ahead in sales.

Use facts rather to overcome emotions when making decisions.

 

If you speak about facts, please relate to the correct numbers. According to Wikipedia there has been 1,586 deliveries of the 737MAX as of July 2024. That it has not crashed more often doesn't mean that it has severe quality issues that are related to cost savings in production.

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Your last sentence is entirely correct.

Your lead in to it shows you fall for Kabuki theater.

Everyone wants a simple answer, a single bad guy to vilify. 

These situations are never - ever - as black and white as you believe.

Kabuki is about legends, my - non exhaustive - list is about actual facts (that cannot be brushed aside as if they never existed), and there are times when an addition of facts leads to a valid diagnosis, a number of competent people arrived at this conclusion, and we would be ill advised to ignore them. We should never forget the hundreds of dead passengers, they were not fiction either.

https://www.courthousenews.com/pilots-union-sues-boeing-over-737-max-crashes/

https://time.com/5589547/pilots-boeing-737-max-safety/

Now could we go back to the topic at hand please, walking through the iFly 737 Max cabin and its gorgeous lighting effects for our future virtual passengers and cabin crews? Never seen these before did we, even if I never go the cabin during my flights, I am certainly impressed by what is going on in MSFS today, cabins, terminals are becoming alive, and whilst this has nothing to do with piloting the aircraft, it certainly adds value and immersion to our virtual world.

6 hours ago, environmental_ice said:

Speaking as a cabin crew member who has worked oboard of the NG but has rode as a passenger on the MAX, The 737MAX is still just a busted old 1960 airplane in the passenger cabin essentially a pig with lipsick. Still no obvious light/colors or sound or literal screen by the phone that says who is calling who on the interphone (Cabin crew or Pilot). Passenger call lights are missed as the sound is still faint like its 1995. You cant see what passenger is actually calling for assistance without breaking your back to figure out where the little blue light is in the cabin which is harder than you think with First Class divided on a 739MAX.

Sometimes you will get indication or hand motion from the passenger that they rang the call light on accident and you have to walk all the way to row 20 to turn it off for them. Why isnt there a button to turn it off on the panel up front like Airbus? Why are crews still having to get on their knees and breaking fingernails to arm doors with the girt bar? Even the 757 was more advanced than this regarding door arming/disarming. Do the pilots still have to walk to the rear of the aircraft to check water/waste level on the MAX? Considering how nothing else has been upgraded in the back I am assuming Yes.

The forward galleys that crews are expected to work in as first class seats continue to climb are nothing short of ridiculous. Also Why in 2024 are crew still having to call pilots for cabin temperature on the newest aircraft from Boeing?  Most just dont bother so if you are hot or cold on your next Boeing flight and thew crew said they called for it? They didn't. Maybe I am a little biased and I am probably leaving a ton of stuff out but this is what I remember working on a 737 one day and an Airbus the next. I really appreciate the thought Airbus shows for the cabin crew on their airplanes. Its not even close when it comes to passenger cabin perks but maybe its because Boeing builds their planes mostly for Southwest/Ryanair model where there isnt much service and really just about transporting point to point. When you think about the cost cutting measures Boeing did to get this thing certified its no wonder they haven't bother with upgrading anything else.

I've never worked as an FA, and I don't know how much of this might be carrier-specific, but at least at my airline: 

1.  There are obvious indicator lights that illuminate for an intercom call, that indicate who is calling.

2.  I've never checked water or waste levels and wouldn't have the faintest idea how; that's an FA function here. 

3.  The Max has temperature adjustment knobs in the cabin, and it is quite rare to receive a call from the cabin for a temp adjustment (which is pretty common on the NGs and one more reason to like the Max.)

As far as galleys go, again this is all secondhand as I've never done an FA's job, but I can tell you what happened when my airline (longtime 737 operator) bought an Airbus operator a while back and our FAs got cross-trained to start working the buses as well: they HATED the galleys, and I mean with a passion.  I never talked to one who liked them.  Conversely, the FAs from that airline complained quite a bit about how much more work they had to do on the Boeings because our normal level of cabin service was quite a bit higher than what that carrier had been doing - our galleys permitted this service and theirs didn't.  So... Boeing vs Airbus, or just options chosen by two different carriers?  Could go either way.

If it's similar to PMDG in terms of systems, I'm already a winner, 

I've already suffered enough with PMDG with DC6 and their nefarious update policy, not to mention that they don't make many friends in their way of communicating.

Edited August 17, 20241 yr by Aglos77

6 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

Kabuki is about legends, my - non exhaustive - list is about actual facts (that cannot be brushed aside as if they never existed), and there are times when an addition of facts leads to a valid diagnosis, a number of competent people arrived at this conclusion, and we would be ill advised to ignore them. We should never forget the hundreds of dead passengers, they were not fiction either.

https://www.courthousenews.com/pilots-union-sues-boeing-over-737-max-crashes/

https://time.com/5589547/pilots-boeing-737-max-safety/

Now could we go back to the topic at hand please, walking through the iFly 737 Max cabin and its gorgeous lighting effects for our future virtual passengers and cabin crews? Never seen these before did we, even if I never go the cabin during my flights, I am certainly impressed by what is going on in MSFS today, cabins, terminals are becoming alive, and whilst this has nothing to do with piloting the aircraft, it certainly adds value and immersion to our virtual world.

It's funny that YOU are the one who dragged IRL in to this discussion, want to focus on the FUD surrounding the issue rather than the facts, and now want to "get back to the topic at hand". 🤣

7 hours ago, 737_800 said:

If you speak about facts, please relate to the correct numbers. According to Wikipedia there has been 1,586 deliveries of the 737MAX as of July 2024. That it has not crashed more often doesn't mean that it has severe quality issues that are related to cost savings in production.

Dude, hanging slightly different engines on a sub-variant of an aircraft just isn't going to turn a very safe aircraft into the deathtrap that you want to pretend it is. It shows that you don't understand the core causes of the crashes, nor are you familiar with the overall safety record of the Max, nor the 737 series overall, nor, apparently, aviation safety in general.

There's at least one IRL Max driver in this very thread, who literally bets his life every week against the "quality issues" dogma you love, and has refuted every single statement you've made.

Yet here you are, tossing out Red Herrings by the handful...

 

Edited August 17, 20241 yr by UrgentSiesta

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Dude, hanging slightly different engines on a sub-variant of an aircraft just isn't going to turn a very safe aircraft into the deathtrap that you want to pretend it is. It shows that you don't understand the core causes of the crashes, nor are you familiar with the overall safety record of the Max, nor the 737 series overall, nor, apparently, aviation safety in general.

There's at least one IRL Max driver in this very thread, who literally bets his life every week against the "quality issues" dogma you love, and has refuted every single statement you've made.

Yet here you are, tossing out Red Herrings by the handful...

 

I've never said the 737 series is unsafe. I was all the time relating to the MAX version, and the reason is not that I think it's unsafe because of other engine type. Anyway, you fly whatever aircraft you feel comfortable in and do it mine way. I wish you all the best.

52 minutes ago, 737_800 said:

I've never said the 737 series is unsafe. I was all the time relating to the MAX version, and the reason is not that I think it's unsafe because of other engine type. Anyway, you fly whatever aircraft you feel comfortable in and do it mine way. I wish you all the best.

But that's the difference, between the Max and other 737s.  The engine. 

If you think other 737s are safe, and the Maxs aren't, the only possible reason could be the engine.  If, now, you say it's not the engine that makes them unsafe... Then you seem to have realized that they aren't.

11 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

Kabuki is about legends, my - non exhaustive - list is about actual facts (that cannot be brushed aside as if they never existed), and there are times when an addition of facts leads to a valid diagnosis, a number of competent people arrived at this conclusion, and we would be ill advised to ignore them. We should never forget the hundreds of dead passengers, they were not fiction either.

https://www.courthousenews.com/pilots-union-sues-boeing-over-737-max-crashes/

https://time.com/5589547/pilots-boeing-737-max-safety/

Note that your "facts" and your links are from 2019.  It's already been explained that the Max today is not the same airplane that was involved in the accidents.  I don't think anyone would argue that the Max, in the state it was when the accidents occurred, didn't have issues.  But the point is that the entire aircraft - not only the systems related to the accidents - went through an entirely new certification process after the design fixes were implemented.  

We're talking about the airplane TODAY.  Today's Max is - literally, no hyperbole - the most thoroughly vetted commercial aircraft that has ever existed. 

It's irrational to pretend people should be afraid of it because of what happened on a functionally completely separate (operating under a completely separate certification process) aircraft.

2 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

But that's the difference, between the Max and other 737s.  The engine. 

If you think other 737s are safe, and the Maxs aren't, the only possible reason could be the engine.  If, now, you say it's not the engine that makes them unsafe... Then you seem to have realized that they aren't.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/us/politics/faa-audit-boeing-737-max.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/business/boeing-quality-problems-speed.html

6 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Dude, hanging slightly different engines on a sub-variant of an aircraft just isn't going to turn a very safe aircraft into the deathtrap that you want to pretend it is. It shows that you don't understand the core causes of the crashes, nor are you familiar with the overall safety record of the Max, nor the 737 series overall, nor, apparently, aviation safety in general.

There's at least one IRL Max driver in this very thread, who literally bets his life every week against the "quality issues" dogma you love, and has refuted every single statement you've made.

Yet here you are, tossing out Red Herrings by the handful...

 

I’m with stearman driver. I enjoy when my trips have more MAXs in them than a NGs. 
 

It’s a great jet. Hand flies really nicely too.

1 hour ago, 737_800 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/us/politics/faa-audit-boeing-737-max.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/business/boeing-quality-problems-speed.html

Not only Boeing gets problems. This is a good read for you https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2024/06/05/boeing-safety/ After flying on my first ever Max last year was not even afraid of being on one. It just felt like being on the NG. Besides the engines and in my opinion more noticeable bouncing around in turbulance compared to the NG. So far this year I've heard about more incidents on airbus relating to turbulance compared to Boeing. Does not make the slightest bit of difference though. 

You could say Boeing is safer with the engines not heard of them having to ground planes. Each company has weaknesses. 

I have worked on a 737-700, -800 and eventually on a MAX 8 variant as a Cabin Crew for the past 9 and a half years. And one thing is for sure. The MAX was the worst of them all. Literally the crew’s space is shrank to absolute minimum… I haven’t come across a crew member that liked flying on it. Otherwise from the technical perspective the plane looks sexy with those LEAP engines, and I loved their howling during engine start and you can really hear when “motoring” starts and when the shaft cools and fuel is ingested - at least I could as I love planes. The F/D is another welcome addition to the MAX family. However as everything this all comes with a price. A few of you above were discussing on how come Boeing didn’t introduce this and that in the MAX? Well easy enough to answer. The more stuff you change the closer you get yourself on having to recertify the whole thing. And that’s something they clearly wanted to avoid…

The AFT Attendant Panel is the only place where one can check the Water and Waste. That’s where one can activate the ELS (Emergency Lighting System) apart from the F/D. In our configuration we could not adjust the temperature from the cabin, so unless that’s an option for airlines I don’t know but I haven’t come across that yet. The lights and the cabin is otherwise the same as the newer / last NG’s that came with the BSI Cabin (Boeing Sky Interior) and believe me those overhead lockers only look nice but actually can accommodate less bags and not more - I wonder if that was an innovation? 😅 The MAX however lands a lot smoother in real life compared to the NG because of the redesigned landing gear. So much nicer and many pax of ours noticed it as well. So yeah some positives but if you ever ask the cabin crew they will most likely be politie and say it’s a beautiful plane but think the opposite or they will outright tell you how bad it is haha. But we are in the sim world and the plane is a very welcome addition and it will provide much joy to us all.

Edited August 18, 20241 yr by Balint Szarka

5 hours ago, 737_800 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/us/politics/faa-audit-boeing-737-max.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/business/boeing-quality-problems-speed.html

Yes?  These are the QA issues affecting Boeing that came to light when the door plug blew out.  They don't have anything to do with the Max, they were Boeing wide problems that are now being corrected. 

If you're not afraid to fly on a 787 or a 777, it's completely irrational to worry about the Max.

Truly, this stuff is coming from a place of very little understanding.

On 8/15/2024 at 4:46 AM, Drumcode said:

This is one of the things that PMDG is lacking, innovation and coolness of certain features in their released products. I understand that PMDG is heavily invested in developing mega realistic systems (for the right reasons, no complaints here), but they are certainly lacking in other areas that will make people like me buy the iFly MAX and wait to see what comes with the default MAX from Microsobo. 

I would characterize this under novelty, and yes, "coolness", but "innovation"...?

Nope. It's almost literally window dressing...

I'm extremely curious to see the level of fidelity the Asobo Max will attain.

As others have noted, Asobo keeps raising the bar on the fidelity of their default aircraft.

If the Asobo Max is as good as, say, the A310 (which is being yet further enhanced) or the iB 320, it will materially affect both 3PDs business.

For e.g., if Asobo's MAX is as good as their A310/A320, I'm extremely unlikely to purchase a payware MAX for $70, regardless whether it's iFly or PMDG. Especially as I already have the excellent PMDG 737-700.

There's just not enough differentiation between the NG and Max to make me lay out that much cash when there are so many other interesting 'liners either released or soon to be.

It probably would've been better for iFly to figure out the 757 or 767 where there hasn't been nor will be competition for awhile.