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Old, complex, study airliners or lack there of?

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5 minutes ago, VeryBumpy said:

Since FS2020 is now on Xbox, hasn't it way out sold FSX already? If this is the case, I see no reason why any decently made plane that is marketed at a medium price point wouldn't sell in large enough numbers to turn a decent profit.

While yes, there are developers out there that are fine with "decent" profits, it's obvious that most developers would aim for models that are able to provide more than decent. They're businesses. 

Vintage airliners combine high complexity (which means a lot of resources and research required to achieve a good result) and niche status, making them less than ideal for developers who want to maximize profits. They either go for less complex, less niche, or both. 

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Editor-in-Chief at SimulationDaily.com

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  • Fiorentoni
    Fiorentoni

    The thing with old airliners is, I'm a middle-aged man and yet I cannot remember any of those airliners. I never saw them in action, let alone been flying with one of them. I don't have any sort of me

  • You missed out the JustFlight BAe 146 Professional, that's all steam with the option of an FMS. And their Avro RJ should be out soon for those prefer more of a hybrid EFIS and FADEC setup.

  • Insulting people with trite, childhish stuff like this is totally the best way to draw their attention on niche areas of simulation. Totally. 

I would love an old airliner with steam gauges, because I think they look nicer in a sim than CRT/LCD flight instruments. (It's just not as pretty when a sim simulates a monitor on your monitor.) And I'm down with the old school LNAV, where you put in lat/long coordinates that steer your flight director and your CDI, without any magenta lines. 

The only thing is, I don't like airliners with flight engineer stations, because I like to press all the buttons myself, and it gets a little fiddly to try to run the overhead panel, the flight controls, and an FE station all at the same time--you'd need like four eyes and six hands. 

I suppose this means early 737s, DC-9s, and MD-80s. 

My dream aircraft would be a 747-200 with the old steam gauges, that somehow had only 2 crew.

 

Edited by prolixindec

Old, complex, study airliners or lack there of?  I think you are in a minority.  Most are clamoring for the A350, A220, B757, A380 etc. 

I would guess that the average age of a simmer has changed drastically since MSFS. 

Speaking for my self, I'm old enough to have flown on 727s regularly, but even I have zero interest in such a currently niche airplane as I mostly only do current real world airline flights. 

In the GA world the C152 and Cub scratch the old plane itch but I still find myself buying 1970s+ GA aircraft. 

4 hours ago, VeryBumpy said:

I see no reason why any decently made plane that is marketed at a medium price point wouldn't sell in large enough numbers to turn a decent profit

I do. There's a hard limit on how many developers exist and a soft limit on what flight simmers are willing to spend their money on.

With more aircraft reaching the market, the desirability of quirky old airliners like the Comet, 1-11, and VC-10 that, combined, sold the same number as the  747-200 variant alone, the amount of people willing to buy airliners out of widespread service 30 or 40+ years ago  drops to only thos select few that have a strong affinity to them.

AMD Ryzen 5800X3D; MSI RTX 3080 Ti ; 32GB Corsair 3200 MHz; ASUS VG35VQ 35" (3440 x 1440)
Fulcrum One yoke; Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack Airbus edition; MFG Crosswind rudder pedals; miniCockpit FCU; CPFlight MCP 737; Logitech FIP x3; TrackIR

MSFS; Fenix A320; A2A PA-24; HPG H145; PMDG 737-600; AIG; RealTraffic; PSXTraffic; FSiPanel; REX AccuSeason Adv; FSDT GSX Pro; FS2Crew RAAS Pro; FS-ATC Chatter

I still use the DC-6 a lot and am enjoying the FSS B727 at the minute with the CIVA INS too. I would love to see an A2A Captain of the Ship for MSFS, I miss the constellation from P3D, it was very immersive. Although its not that old I would also really love to see a Dash 8 100 in MSFS, I could spend months flying around Norway in that!

 

 

 

Ultimately the market will decide. I feel the sweet spot for retro stuff is early EFIS types such as the 737-400, 757, Avro RJ, F100 which have enough automation to be manageable but enough of a retro vibe to be a bit different. 
When you watch someone like flightdeck2sim flying a steam gauge 727 or 747 he is working his pants off, and he’s a real pilot. Flying raw data procedures with no automation is beyond the capabilities of 99% of the sim crowd, which will limit the old birds audience. 

23 hours ago, VeryBumpy said:

Speak for yourself. It's all I fly, and the A2A B377, both in FSX. I'm not interested in buying the same exact plane (DC-6) for FS2020.

I see I've missed, and am surprised no one mentioned, the Red Wing L-1049 Constellation. I assume no one mentioned it because it's most recent quality and refinement release is still several steps below expectations.

I have always wanted to get that one (constellation). Hopefully they can keep improving it.

7800+4090+64ram

Just Flight RJ, 146 and F28, Piper Arrows ---A2A Aerostar and Comanche---Black Square Starship, Duke(s), TBM, Bonanza/BaronV2, KingAir---FSReborn FSR500---COWS Da42---FX P180, HJet & VJet---FlySimWare Chancellor and LearJet---FlightSimStudio EMB175 &P2006T---Fenix 320---PMDG DC6, 737(700+900), 777---C22J---Milviz Cessna 310 & Porter---SimWorksStudios Kodiak, PC12, Zenith & RV14---BigRadials Goose---IndiaFoxEcho MB3339+F35.

 

11 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

I have always wanted to get that one (constellation). Hopefully they can keep improving it.

The Connie from A2A in P3D was excellent. 

 

 

 

I would die for a L-1011 😍

Love this AC !

And by the way i fly the DC-6 from time to time..

cheers 😉

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On 8/30/2024 at 3:19 PM, Sonosusto said:

Yeah, I am confused myself. To be fair there was an odd oscillation issue in the past and I guess WTT worked with PMDG to figure it out. 

Still, such a fun plane to fly. I really like taking the time to start it up. One thing is missing: smoke during engine start. Tere is a mod for that though. It helps. 

 

Which issues are these? 

Well, I stand corrected. I had totally forgot that awhile back I figured out the issues on the DC6, and even posted what I had found on the PMDG DC6 forum. I stopped flying it because I had started flying the 737-Fenix A320 and PMDG 777. I took it out of the hangar today, and set it up, and going to fly it tomorrow on A  Pilots LIfe. They always dock me some  points because it doesn't have spoilers and taxi lights,  but who cares. 

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Well, I stand corrected. I had totally forgot that awhile back I figured out the issues on the DC6, and even posted what I had found on the PMDG DC6 forum. I stopped flying it because I had started flying the 737-Fenix A320 and PMDG 777. I took it out of the hangar today, and set it up, and going to fly it tomorrow on A  Pilots LIfe. They always dock me some  points because it doesn't have spoilers and taxi lights,  but who cares. 

still one of my favs! of all the birds out there its still in my top 5. I can take the time to do a complete preflight and start up or just use the "engineer" for assistance when im in a hurry. 

7800+4090+64ram

Just Flight RJ, 146 and F28, Piper Arrows ---A2A Aerostar and Comanche---Black Square Starship, Duke(s), TBM, Bonanza/BaronV2, KingAir---FSReborn FSR500---COWS Da42---FX P180, HJet & VJet---FlySimWare Chancellor and LearJet---FlightSimStudio EMB175 &P2006T---Fenix 320---PMDG DC6, 737(700+900), 777---C22J---Milviz Cessna 310 & Porter---SimWorksStudios Kodiak, PC12, Zenith & RV14---BigRadials Goose---IndiaFoxEcho MB3339+F35.

 

I'm still very much enjoying the PMDG DC-6 - though I really need to do some longer flights in her. I can think of a number of old, and very old, airliners I'd like to see, particularly immediate post-WW2, such as the Avro Lancastrian and York. Some of the Vickers twins, such as the Valetta and Viking, Bristol Britannia and Lockheed L-188. The Short C-Class Empire flying boat, and the HP.42/45 too - like everyone, I have a wish list as long as my arm. 😊

Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting.

https://rationalwiki.org

Got the DC6 out of the hangar this morning, off to KIAD from KBNA. Everything smooth so far. 

 

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6 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Got the DC6 out of the hangar this morning, off to KIAD from KBNA. Everything smooth so far.

Nice, Bob! Looks like a fun time. Did you use VOR-VOR nav or anything like that? Or the GNS430 etc? I have always tried radio nav only and It's probably the most of fun for me.

Currently I love flying in short fields around Alaska using their cargo/pass variant.

 

7800+4090+64ram

Just Flight RJ, 146 and F28, Piper Arrows ---A2A Aerostar and Comanche---Black Square Starship, Duke(s), TBM, Bonanza/BaronV2, KingAir---FSReborn FSR500---COWS Da42---FX P180, HJet & VJet---FlySimWare Chancellor and LearJet---FlightSimStudio EMB175 &P2006T---Fenix 320---PMDG DC6, 737(700+900), 777---C22J---Milviz Cessna 310 & Porter---SimWorksStudios Kodiak, PC12, Zenith & RV14---BigRadials Goose---IndiaFoxEcho MB3339+F35.

 

9 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

Nice, Bob! Looks like a fun time. Did you use VOR-VOR nav or anything like that? Or the GNS430 etc? I have always tried radio nav only and It's probably the most of fun for me.

Currently I love flying in short fields around Alaska using their cargo/pass variant.

 

I use the GTN 750 and simbrief FP. I got my license VOR to VOR, about 45 years ago, done with that. Besides, I fly all the time on A PIlots LIfe, and many times very few  VORs near my route. 

 

 

 

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