The 707's were so simple that Boeing used junior high school kids to  assemble them.

 

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

I use the GTN 750 and simbrief FP. I got my license VOR to VOR, about 45 years ago, done with that. Besides, I fly all the time on A PIlots LIfe, and many times very few  VORs near my route. 

Yeah, the last I flew I used the tds and it makes nav easier. 

Anyone here have the F28 fokker? Very complex and maybe more regional? 

The DC6 range is ridiculous for old it is. I remember watching a video about the Everts crew flying across the Atlantic to deliver it for a museum or something. 

2 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

Anyone here have the F28 fokker? Very complex and maybe more regional? 

The Fokker is excellent, absolutely nothing negative about it imo, great flight model which just feels right, I like JF's 146 as well but the Fokker has a very immersive cockpit especially at night the lighting is excellent, I love red lighting in vintage cockpits. There is a 4K texture pack as wel for the cockpit which is a work of art in its wear and tear visuals so I always find myself flying this one over the 146 because of that 'cockpit feel'.
Rather unique in some of its procedures but once you're used to it you're up and flying in no time really, no FMC to setup currently and although it's a VOR to VOR bird I suppose I believe the 530 is a standard option which I swap out for a  GTN 750 working by using a mod from flightsim.to, that way I can easily import my simbrief plan and it does track a GPS route but once I reach the arrival stage I tend to go semi manual on its AP controls, no vnav.  I believe that the same UNC-1 FMC however currently in the 146 is also coming to the fokker but don't quote me on that.
I guess it is more suited for short regional hops but it nevertheless comes with 3 variants/sizes so I assume that in its hay day the longer variant was common on the longer routes as well so you certainly have options.
Bottom line if you like a vintage jet airliner, imo this is the best one out there.

1 hour ago, stefaandk said:

The Fokker is excellent, absolutely nothing negative about it imo, great flight model which just feels right, I like JF's 146 as well but the Fokker has a very immersive cockpit especially at night the lighting is excellent, I love red lighting in vintage cockpits. There is a 4K texture pack as wel for the cockpit which is a work of art in its wear and tear visuals so I always find myself flying this one over the 146 because of that 'cockpit feel'.
Rather unique in some of its procedures but once you're used to it you're up and flying in no time really, no FMC to setup currently and although it's a VOR to VOR bird I suppose I believe the 530 is a standard option which I swap out for a  GTN 750 working by using a mod from flightsim.to, that way I can easily import my simbrief plan and it does track a GPS route but once I reach the arrival stage I tend to go semi manual on its AP controls, no vnav.  I believe that the same UNC-1 FMC however currently in the 146 is also coming to the fokker but don't quote me on that.
I guess it is more suited for short regional hops but it nevertheless comes with 3 variants/sizes so I assume that in its hay day the longer variant was common on the longer routes as well so you certainly have options.
Bottom line if you like a vintage jet airliner, imo this is the best one out there.

Yeah the Fokker is probably up there in the top 3 or 4

Which 750 version the TDS or PMS? I have not tried that nav yet with that plane. Only radio nav.

Yes, I think you're right about the 146 and Fokker70/100 will have "modernized" avionics to some degree.

Not sure about the rest of you but I love flying in the sim with analog/steam gauge but a handy garmin nearby as well haha

Edited September 2, 20241 yr by Sonosusto

 

1 hour ago, Sonosusto said:

Which 750 version the TDS or PMS? I have not tried that nav yet with that plane. Only radio nav.

Yes, I think you're right about the 146 and Fokker70/100 will have "modernized" avionics to some degree

 

I use the PMS given at the time of purchase only that one had Navigraph support, not sure if the TDS can be used as well here given a mod.  
The PMS quirk where it puts the airport as a waypoint in front of the approach when activating the approach is a big nuisance though, today I would probably buy the TDS instead given that shortcoming but it's easy enough to work around, I'm still not using any ATC as maybe those 3rd party ones would also make the approach a bit more elegant. 

Yeah I use the "pro" TDS version because it integrated Navigraph and charts. Though there are many ATC programs and some of them have integration with navigraph. Or at least most of them do. Mine does but that's for a different topic. 

I need to take Bob's advice and fly with the TDS version again with the DC6. One of the first complex planes for 2020 when the sim was still plagued with bugs. Dc6 had its share of quirks but PMDG figured it out. I remember my first landing was KSAN 27. Kind of steeper descent. Interesting landing. Missed ILS and well.....Lets just say I would have made the Everts crew scoff at my ballooning that then led to several bounces 😅😅

Hold on.... if were talking "vintage" or "old" then that could mean anything 😄 these days if youre a hipster. 

Edited September 2, 20241 yr by Sonosusto

24 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

Hold on.... if were talking "vintage" or "old" then that could mean anything 😄 these days if youre a hipster. 

Definitely not a hipster lol, started gaming on a C64, played F16 Falcon obsessively on the Amiga but Flight Simulator 98 was when I started to become a serious civilian sim enthusiast.  So there is definitely a nostalgia and appreciation factor to these planes, no doubt fuelled by some compensation for never becoming a pilot irl as most likely those would have been the planes I would today remember as the planes I started on 😀  

7 hours ago, stefaandk said:

The Fokker is excellent, absolutely nothing negative about it

Well... They rewrote the perfectly working vor logic to show horn in the gps and it now works like lnav not classic vor. Considering the real plane was Cat II certified this version is definitely not reliable in poor visibility doing a precision approach. 

The ndb is basically untunable unless you use tool tips which I don't. 

If you fly vfr or of course with magenta it works like a treat. Rest of plane is as joy. Great looks and sounds. Poor ground friction model but thats just msfs I believe. You only need just add a tiny bit of power and the plane starts shooting forward with no sense of inertia, as if it was made of paper. 

Their Bae 146 interests me as that uses a custom FMC I believe so it won't matter that it behaves like a GPS because it IS one! 😎

57 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Well... They rewrote the perfectly working vor logic to show horn in the gps and it now works like lnav not classic vor.

Not sure what you mean, I only do VOR flights with it, and it performs accordingly. Is there any proof to you're claim about them rewriting the logic? I can't find anything in the update logs and there's no explanation on your part to what you're claiming either.

 

58 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

The ndb is basically untunable unless you use tool tips which I don't. 

Care to explain.. how? I've flown (rather poorly) and NDB incorporated approach without issue.

 

59 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Poor ground friction model but thats just msfs I believe.

JF's aircraft have an externalised ground model, it's actually miles better than their first attempt with the BAE

 

1 hour ago, sloppysmusic said:

You only need just add a tiny bit of power and the plane starts shooting forward with no sense of inertia, as if it was made of paper. 

This is par for the course in reference to the pilot's handbook. It will taxi on idle and at low GWs it requires active usage of brakes during taxi.

Perhaps its better to not assert aircraft behaviour without atleast getting some understanding through QRH or FCOM firsthand?

On 8/30/2024 at 11:21 PM, DavidP said:

The "Children of the Magenta" disparagement has been going on for over 25 years. People are a product of how they were taught in any given era of time...

Next thing people will be disparaging TCAS (or TCAD in GA aircraft), which to me is the one greatest safety protection to supplement a good lookout, which isn't infallible.

On 8/31/2024 at 12:11 AM, Abriael said:

Insulting people with trite, childhish stuff like this is totally the best way to draw their attention on niche areas of simulation. Totally. 

It's a simple observation: lots of the userbase want/need a moving map and VNAV to feel comfortable because of how/when they learnt, and they won't buy products that don't have those - that is not a slight on such users; for the record the argument goes both ways, there's old schoolers who avoid technology to their detriment, and aren't going to buy any addon with a glass cockpit. And then you get those users who take offence for others where there was none... 🙃 

Will someone old please now be outraged for those I said were too young to remember these types in service. And perhaps someone who's never lived in the UK would like to express their disgust on behalf of the British, because I said many of their airliners didn't sell well?

Edited September 2, 20241 yr by ckyliu

I do not mind admitting that I am a "child of the magenta". A nice FMS/autopilot/autothrottle/ND combination is what I require for the lazy flying that I like to do Having said that, I really like the look and sound of classic airliners. The best compromise for my requirements will hopefully be the JustFlight Avro RJ series. That should have just enough automation for me to handle it, together with an authentic FMS that looks the part.

For the record, I am not a big fan of those GNS/GTN style units, or even the G1000. I prefer a nice keypad FMS and traditional ND combo.

1 hour ago, ckyliu said:

It's a simple observation: lots of the userbase want/need a moving map and VNAV to feel comfortable because of how/when they learnt, and they won't buy products that don't have those - that is not a slight on such users; for the record the argument goes both ways, there's old schoolers who avoid technology to their detriment, and aren't going to buy any addon with a glass cockpit. And then you get those users who take offence for others where there was none... 🙃 

Will someone old please now be outraged for those I said were too young to remember these types in service. And perhaps someone who's never lived in the UK would like to express their disgust on behalf of the British, because I said many of their airliners didn't sell well?

I'd suggest to avoid applying labels to people. Many of those you call "children of the Magenta" would be happy to learn something new if they felt welcomed by the veterans who grew up with VORs and steam gauges instead of given a weird label, to be honest with you. 

1 hour ago, ckyliu said:

And perhaps someone who's never lived in the UK would like to express their disgust on behalf of the British, because I said many of their airliners didn't sell well?

Can I instead be outraged on behalf of the Dutch that their most sold airliner (Fokker F27) was only half as popular as the DC-9 or the 737-200?

And the less said about the French, the better...

Sorry, I meant the less said about French airliner manufacturing (pre-Airbus), the better... 😜 

(Ce n'était qu'une blague mes amis)

I’m 49 and clearly (and fondly) remember riding on and watching DC-9s, 727s, L-1011s, Fokker 100s (including being a passenger on the second revenue flight of one American Airlines example which makes me feel VERY old), the strange but wonderful Bae-146, 737-200s, MD-82s, 757s, etc.

For me any of those planes (or those of similar or even older era) are wonderful ways to go back in time - I enjoyed flights in both the Maddog MD-82 and 146 and (in XP12) the 757-200 this AM.  And the DC-6 and Shorts 360 yesterday.

Those young enough not to have experienced the deafening, smokey takeoffs of the 727 or 737-200 or DC-9s missed out.

And I’m definitely looking forward to the 707 in MSFS and the Caravelle as well in 2024 (Unless I dreamed it I believe a Caravelle is coming?).  I’d gladly buy a DH Comet 4 with the square windows in BEA dress with the red wings (and I’m an American), similarly an L-1011 in old ATA livery would be very welcome as that was our honeymoon trip plane.  Needless to say I’d buy a DC-9 too.

Even for GA I love the old school planes (hopefully in 70s liveries).

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Lucky38i said:

JF's aircraft have an externalised ground model, it's actually miles better than their first attempt with the BAE

That’s very interesting to read, as I’ve always maintained that I find the F28 the most realistic and pleasant aircraft to taxi in any sim to date. 
I have been known to take the long way round on a taxiway to the runway as I’ve been enjoying the feel of the taxi in VR so much.

Subjective of course, but I do have some experience of taxiing real aircraft.