18 hours ago, eslader said:

but in the end most LSAs that aren't oversized ultralights go for money that could buy you a nicely-sorted Ferrari

What is the ceiling and cruising speed of a Ferrari?  

The truth is both Piper and Cessna dropped LSA. They are relatively expansive  hard to maintain and limited to VFR only. Any used airplane (172, Cherokee, Cruiser and etc) from 70th and 80th will beat LSA in practically anything but fuel economy . 

We have flight school next door who decided to replace training fleet with 162 Skycatcher . They got first two airframes, struggled with them for a while then canceled remaining order . They still use fleet of well upgraded 172s.

We also had two Piper sport airplanes which technically were Czech made and licensed by Piper. Most of their time they  spent in maintenance and could not rent very well. They were popular among  people who lost their medical, but now FAA expended list of airplane people can fly with basic med so LSA is no longer their only choice 

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

What is the ceiling and cruising speed of a Ferrari?

14,000 feet in the United States if you take the Mount Blue Sky Scenic Byway in Colorado, and a heckuva lot faster than most light sports.

 

So, technically very comparable to an LSA.  😄

 

Edited September 29, 20241 yr by eslader

19 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Any used airplane (172, Cherokee, Cruiser and etc) from 70th and 80th will beat LSA in practically anything but fuel economy

LSA, or microlight (or ultralight) airplanes as they are called in Europe, are not only cheaper regarding fuel. Cost for insurance, maintenance and landing fees is lower when compared to the Cessnas and Pipers. It is also harder to get spare parts for a decades old airplane. Talk about performance? Most modern microlights are sleek little planes that will get you to your destination faster than a C172 or P28A. The only reason I would want to fly an old C172, P28A or something similar, is because they are beautiful legendary machines, and of course the possibility to add two more people and extra luggage.

21 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

LSA, or microlight (or ultralight) airplanes as they are called in Europe, are not only cheaper regarding fuel. Cost for insurance, maintenance and landing fees is lower when compared to the Cessnas and Pipers. It is also harder to get spare parts for a decades old airplane. Talk about performance? Most modern microlights are sleek little planes that will get you to your destination faster than a C172 or P28A. The only reason I would want to fly an old C172, P28A or something similar, is because they are beautiful legendary machines, and of course the possibility to add two more people and extra luggage.

You are right since everything aviation related US extremely overpriced  in US, in Europe it twice as more expensive! However, maintenance wise I can't think of any LSA is durable or take a beating  as ancient Piper and Cessna or even Dimonds. It's not hard to see with big US schools choice of fleet doesn't include LSA . And those folks now how to count money. Just example of few Embry Riddle, Spartan, Sportys :

https://daytonabeach.erau.edu/about/fleet-simulators

https://www.spartan.edu/tulsa/flight-school/

https://sportysacademy.com/aircraft/

In addition problems that I mentioned above the biggest problem of LSA (other than useful load) is inability to fly IFR in actual condition. None of those I know are certified for IFR. Which live room for recreational activities like weekend warriors, $100 burger flights  and etc. It easily seen as none of existing LSA can beat production number for Cessnas , Pipers, Dimonds

14 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

However, maintenance wise I can't think of any LSA is durable or take a beating  as ancient Piper and Cessna or even Dimonds

I see your point. The older planes are more rugged. Most modern LSA/microlight aircraft, like the TL3000 are fairly new, but if maintained properly I think they will last long as well. Albeit much lighter, they are also fairly strong.

 

18 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

the biggest problem of LSA (other than useful load) is inability to fly IFR in actual condition

That is indeed a shortcoming of the light class of airplanes. I don't see it as a shortcoming personally, as my thrill is only VFR flight 😎

 

19 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

It easily seen as none of existing LSA can beat production number for Cessnas , Pipers, Dimonds

These brands exist a lot longer of course. But a very popular LSA/microlight like the Tecnam P92, first built in 1992, has sold been many times since then.

56 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Most modern microlights are sleek little planes that will get you to your destination faster than a C172 or P28A

I agree.

Composite frame paired with a turbocharged Rotax and 3-blade constant speed prop is the future of GA.

The gigantic Aero24 Expo in Friedrichhafen last May made no secrets about it. Tons of these (mostly 2-seaters) on the exhibition floors.

13 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

I agree.

Composite frame paired with a turbocharged Rotax and 3-blade constant speed prop is the future of GA.

The gigantic Aero24 Expo in Friedrichhafen last May made no secrets about it. Tons of these (mostly 2-seaters) on the exhibition floors.

I suspect the long term future of small GA is electric.

26 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

I suspect the long term future of small GA is electric.

I'm not holding my breath on that.

The pure EV market is far too volatile ATM.

The FSR500 is one of my favorite add-ons for MSFS, along with A2As Comanche, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

And while I have FSRs Sting and appreciate it's quality and craftsmanship, I only flew it a couple of times.

I'll pass on this new one, too, as it's just not the kind of aircraft that captures my interest 

At those "speeds", I'd much rather buzz about in a helo, frankly 😁

Edited September 29, 20241 yr by UrgentSiesta

38 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

At those "speeds", I'd much rather buzz about in a helo, frankly 😁

A very understandable sentiment, although my helo skills wouldn't get me very far 🤣 Some microlights actually can almost perform as a helicopter. The Aeroprakt-32 I fly can still comfortably do standard turns with 30 kts, even a little less on a very calm day. When practicing stalls with students, with full flaps, I can get the ASI to read zero! Add some power and she goes to a reasonable cruise speed of 100 kts. But that doesn't match the speeds a PA24 or FSR500 can reach of course. And neither can this TL3000, the topic of the thread. I've never flown the TL3000 in real life. I might get this one to give it a virtual try.

Edited September 29, 20241 yr by Rimshot

1 hour ago, Rimshot said:

 

These brands exist a lot longer of course. But a very popular LSA/microlight like the Tecnam P92, first built in 1992, has sold been many times since then.

Yes Tencam are gaining momentum here particular twin P2006? (if I remember correctly) has been slowly grinding it's way to the training turf, but they are not there yet .

By the way I'm not a super big fan of Lycoming and Continental. I think they are 100 years behind comparing with  current car engine tech. But flying,  instructing and owning for over to decade the general consensus among local mechanics  Rotax is less reliable that old clunkers mentioned above. The top simplicity and reliability is considered Lycoming O320. 

17 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

By the way I'm not a super big fan of Lycoming and Continental. I think they are 100 years behind comparing with  current car engine tech.

If modern cars had to go through the expense of the FAA engine certification process, we'd still be running carburetors and points in our Acuras.

 

22 minutes ago, eslader said:

If modern cars had to go through the expense of the FAA engine certification process, we'd still be running carburetors and points in our Acuras.

 

No it's just like FAA there are much deeper assessment especially in US market . I think it has to do with many factors. Watch this

 

We really close to release... 

Yes that is a in game shoot in MSFS 2020..

Best,

Raul