In my opinion, the quality of a simulated aircraft is the performance of LNAV and VNAV (especially VNAV) as this requires complex maths to meet all altitude and speed restrictions.
Watching this video says it all. The FMC, autopilot and autothrust nailed it (including the DME arc) throughout the entire approach! 

I have absolutely no affiliation with PMDG but the updated 737 is in my opinion a masterpiece.

 

Nah.... It's just because two airports in Portugal!

Nothing ever fails in Portugal!

🤪

Yeah, but I'll offer a caveat - if it's the same logic from the 777, there are approaches it nails, and then there are approaches that break it, and when it breaks it doesn't just go wide, it just goes completely rogue.  Hopefully they've updated it on the 73 to handle more challenging segments.  

Just now, Stearmandriver said:

Yeah, but I'll offer a caveat - if it's the same logic from the 777, there are approaches it nails, and then there are approaches that break it, and when it breaks it doesn't just go wide, it just goes completely rogue.  Hopefully they've updated it on the 73 to handle more challenging segments.  

You mean I have to fly it by...... hand?????

I don't know what to do!!!!

2 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

You mean I have to fly it by...... hand?????

I don't know what to do!!!!

I wonder if it’s an airline SOP thing but at my company, hand flying any RF leg is prohibited. 

Just now, ahsmatt7 said:

I wonder if it’s an airline SOP thing but at my company, hand flying any RF leg is prohibited. 

Really?  Oh yeah, that's a company thing.  We do it all the time, down to RNP .10.

46 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Really?  Oh yeah, that's a company thing.  We do it all the time, down to RNP .10.

I figured as much. I don’t get paid to make the rules I just follow them to best of my ability.

 

19 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I figured as much. I don’t get paid to make the rules I just follow them to best of my ability.

Absolutely.  Makes no difference to me, I do what I'm told, long as the check keeps cashing.

4 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

 Hopefully they've updated it on the 73 to handle more challenging segments.  

Besides the new navigation capabilities, I'm still noticing the same issues with the LNAV, AP and FD before or after the WPT passage and having difficulty sticking to the magenta line. I'm afraid that what we see is what we will get. I sincerely hope I'm mistaken.

37 minutes ago, LRBS said:

. I sincerely hope I'm mistaken.

I noticed that too.  I agree, I hope there's further refinement, cause that's kind of what we saw with the 777 - new navdata format and an ability to draw an arc, but no real improved ability to FLY it.  I remember when the much-touted "LNAV 2.0" was released with back end fixes to prepare for new navdata, and claimed different improvements to the autoflight - and I couldn't tell any difference in flight guidance at all.  I sure hope they fix it up eventually.

5 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

You mean I have to fly it by...... hand?????

I don't know what to do!!!!

The 777 didn’t even give me the proper guidance on the RNAV14L into Bogotá tonight, so it’s more than that.  
 

The iFly 737 does RNPs quite nicely as well, just for comparison. 

6 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

I noticed that too.  I agree, I hope there's further refinement, cause that's kind of what we saw with the 777 - new navdata format and an ability to draw an arc, but no real improved ability to FLY it.  I remember when the much-touted "LNAV 2.0" was released with back end fixes to prepare for new navdata, and claimed different improvements to the autoflight - and I couldn't tell any difference in flight guidance at all.  I sure hope they fix it up eventually.

That is rather disappointing. I was hoping that it would be able to fly a nice, smooth turn on those DME arcs after this update (and also get rid of that "wobble" just before it makes standard turns) 🙁 At least it will draw proper arcs now on the ND. That compromised solution that it currently uses is a bit of a mess. The fictional waypoints generated are not even an approximation of an arc in the VOR 14 approach from AKETO at LGKF Kefalonia (an example of a recent landing approach that I simulated with FSiPanel).

Edited October 23, 20241 yr by Christopher Low

In the Madeira video from Emi you can still see pretty bad AP turns out of Lisbon. Starting with a steep bank, than shallowing out just to bank steeper again. Didn't look good.

The RNP approach did look better, though.

This is PMDG's reaction, which is very disturbing. It also includes the lie that "this is how the NG flies" based on their real pilot's advice."  

I'm sorry, but I can't believe this is the case unless these so-called "real pilots" are just mouthpieces for PMDG. This isn't very reassuring.

 

 

Mathijs [PMDG]

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#5

Yesterday, 20:38

Originally posted by Sekkha View Post

That might be, but Asobo planes are nothing I really care about, and this is not the caliber of add ons I would compare PMDG to in no aspect. But there are other planes out there which fly LNAV as real airliners do, so sorry, PMDG doesnt seem to get that right at all. Buts thats obvioulsly nothing more than my opinion.

Ah well, you can't please everybody. We take our advise for these things from real pilots and they actually want things to be LESS perfect because that is how the NG flies. I have no idea how many hours you have in the real NG, but we are rather happy with the changes and the way it is more accurate.

Mathijs Kok
PMDG Simulations

Have fun. Be respectful. Criticize ideas, never people.

 

 

 

 

 

Sekkha

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#6

Yesterday, 21:24

Originally posted by Mathijs [PMDG] View Post

Ah well, you can't please everybody. We take our advise for these things from real pilots and they actually want things to be LESS perfect because that is how the NG flies. I have no idea how many hours you have in the real NG, but we are rather happy with the changes and the way it is more accurate.

I have quite a lot of hours in the real NG observing how it flies turns, that I can assure you.

But are you saying that real word NG pilots are requesting the sim plane to be unable to roll out of a simple "direct to" turn in a steady manner? That´s surprising to be honest. I have heard other voices in this regard though.The real plane most certainly is able to do that.

But anyway, this much less comes down to how good you know the plane technically but much more to the sensivity to and interest in observing of these things. RW pilots arent necessarily the best source for this for exact that reason. Some notice these things and point them out and others don´t. As with everything, people have their own perception of the things out there. However, bank angle oscillations are not a subjective thing, it can be observed very easily if you focus your attention on it. You just have to do it.

I fully get it that some RW pilots don´t care about a bit of wonky movements. They might just want the plane to stay on the magenta. That´s fine. However in the sim there is not the slightest consequence visually, acustically, operationally, in terms of safety or whatever if the plane slightly overshoots a turn. But there are huge visual and therefore immersive consequences for simming if the movements are wonky and not natural. And thats the point of all this for me.