The default aircraft in FS2020 eventually allowed the user to adjust the flight model by getting rid of the sim objects folder encryption in response to many requests.  Are the default FS2024 aircraft like the C172 editable flight model wise? It looks to me from early YouTube videos that many of the aircraft demonstrate (yet again) twitchiness in control, particularly yaw/steering on the ground and way too twitchy in pitch.

Nope.  All are encrypted  Dev Support.  1 step forward - 3 back..........

Good to see you, hope you're doing well.

 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by irocx

Hi Rob, I hope you are doing a bit better!  I love that you want to improve things again!

Since everything is in the cloud I see no good way to do this.  But some of us painter guys are working on some things so if I find a way to make mods I'll let ya know.  

I guess though, at some point, we will be allowed to download things to our local drives.  I'm not sure what files we'll be able to see at that time.

38 minutes ago, robert young said:

The default aircraft in FS2020 eventually allowed the user to adjust the flight model by getting rid of the sim objects folder encryption in response to many requests.  Are the default FS2024 aircraft like the C172 editable flight model wise? It looks to me from early YouTube videos that many of the aircraft demonstrate (yet again) twitchiness in control, particularly yaw/steering on the ground and way too twitchy in pitch.

Hmmm the reports from various around here and elsewhere has been anything but that? https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/, and mostly very positive about the dynamics and ground handling. Any twitchiness might be down to improper controller config.
 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

25 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Hmmm the reports from various around here and elsewhere has been anything but that? https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/, and mostly very positive about the dynamics and ground handling. Any twitchiness might be down to improper controller config.
 

I watch for myself and so far I don't agree with any of the "reviews" you quote. I see people using very small stick movement for exaggerated responses, twitchiness in pitch and ridiculously over sensitive yaw on the ground. The "improper" controller config argument was used initially in FS2020 also but that didn't wash. But at least it was fixable because the FS2020 default flight models were unencrypted.

1 minute ago, robert young said:

I watch for myself and so far I don't agree with any of the "reviews" you quote. I see people using very small stick movement for exaggerated responses, twitchiness in pitch and ridiculously over sensitive yaw on the ground. The "improper" controller config argument was used initially in FS2020 also but that didn't wash. But at least it was fixable because the FS2020 default flight models were unencrypted.

Just to be clear, have you tried yourself in 2024 or are you going purely by videos?
 

34 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

Hi Rob, I hope you are doing a bit better!  I love that you want to improve things again!

Since everything is in the cloud I see no good way to do this.  But some of us painter guys are working on some things so if I find a way to make mods I'll let ya know.  

I guess though, at some point, we will be allowed to download things to our local drives.  I'm not sure what files we'll be able to see at that time.

Thanks Ryan. I'm stable for the time being. All the best.

Just now, lwt1971 said:

Just to be clear, have you tried yourself in 2024 or are you going purely by videos?
 

Ah, that question again (same happened with fs2020). Imagine you are an instructor and sitting next to a student pulling and pushing on controls. You can learn a lot by watching the inputs and seeing the aircraft reactions. Actually you almost do not have to even see the inputs. I've been working on flight models professionally for near on 30 years and I can easily spot if they are off. 

6 minutes ago, robert young said:

Ah, that question again (same happened with fs2020). Imagine you are an instructor and sitting next to a student pulling and pushing on controls. You can learn a lot by watching the inputs and seeing the aircraft reactions. Actually you almost do not have to even see the inputs. I've been working on flight models professionally for near on 30 years and I can easily spot if they are off. 

Ok umm, sure? 🙂 Well hopefully you get access to tinkering FMs of all the aircraft you desire rather than disliking them from afar watching users' youtube videos.

P.S. The question about actually flying the aircraft oneself to asses its FM, I think.. is a fair one though?
 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

9 minutes ago, robert young said:

Ah, that question again (same happened with fs2020). Imagine you are an instructor and sitting next to a student pulling and pushing on controls. You can learn a lot by watching the inputs and seeing the aircraft reactions. Actually you almost do not have to even see the inputs. I've been working on flight models professionally for near on 30 years and I can easily spot if they are off. 

First hand experience always trumps watching it.

The issues you see could easily just be their sticks/controllers sensitivity being too high.

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

12 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Ok umm, sure? 🙂 Well hopefully you get access to tinkering FMs of all the aircraft you desire rather than disliking them from afar watching users' youtube videos.

P.S. The question about actually flying the aircraft oneself to asses its FM, I think.. is a fair one though?
 

I'm not sure if you realize who this guy is but um.. If he says the flight model is wrong, the flight model is wrong. Might wanna Google him before you reply again...

@robert young Yep, I've noticed that on my end. Just the slightest twitch on the pedals and the plane janks to the left or right on the ground, and about 5 or so degrees on the yoke is enough to rapidly bank. And I don't think it's controller settings because the cockpit yoke isn't moving any more than my hardware yoke is, but it should be at least past 1/2 deflection based on the roll rate.

 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by eslader

6 minutes ago, eslader said:

I'm not sure if you realize who this guy is but um.. If he says the flight model is wrong, the flight model is wrong. Might wanna Google him before you reply again...

@robert young Yep, I've noticed that on my end. Just the slightest twitch on the pedals and the plane janks to the left or right on the ground, and about 5 or so degrees on the yoke is enough to rapidly bank. And I don't think it's controller settings because the cockpit yoke isn't moving any more than my hardware yoke is, but it should be at least past 1/2 deflection based on the roll rate.

 

That's great he's worked "professionally on flight models for ~30 years", but no, not going to take anyone's word on flight models based purely on their viewing of other users' youtube videos of in-sim flying 🙂. That, coupled with the countless positive reviews of flight dynamics in the default birds so far in 2024, including various IRL pilots, some of whome have been very critical before of MSFS.  And controller settings *are* key here, as for example someone like BlackBox711 found out today where adjusting them made for a very different and better experience.
 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

Flight 2 confirmed 🤣

4 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

That's great he's worked "professionally on flight models for ~30 years", but no, not going to take anyone's word on flight models based purely on their viewing of other users' youtube videos of in-sim flying 🙂. That, coupled with the countless positive reviews of flight dynamics in the default birds so far in 2024, including various IRL pilots, some of whome have been very critical before of MSFS.  And controller settings *are* key here, as for example someone like BlackBox711 found out today where adjusting them made for a very different and better experience.
 

The flight dynamics are fine. The sim is acting like much more control deflection than commanded is happening. But it's not a controller setting because if it were, the on-screen controls would deflect appropriately for the rate of change, and they don't.

So basically, you're commanding a small input, the sim recognizes that and commands a small input, and then the control surfaces deflect hugely.

Many of us are getting tired of the "experts don't know any more than the rest of us" crowd, btw.

 

5 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

That's great he's worked "professionally on flight models for ~30 years", but no, not going to take anyone's word on flight models based purely on their viewing of other users' youtube videos of in-sim flying 🙂. That, coupled with the countless positive reviews of flight dynamics in the default birds so far in 2024, including various IRL pilots, some of whome have been very critical before of MSFS.  And controller settings *are* key here, as for example someone like BlackBox711 found out today where adjusting them made for a very different and better experience.
 

Yes, adjusting controllers can to a limited extent hide the flaws. As to opinions to be trusted, some reviewers do believe some aircraft are slightly better than before, but for every positive review there are matching views of the opposite opinion. I personally tend to trust certain people I know who are experienced pilots. Two examples:

This review by a respected professional pilot : 

...and another:

Almost all aircraft are remarkably stable in pitch - even the smaller ones. And even the smallest aircraft and gliders still have inertia. The slower the speed the more input you need for the same reaction. After many years you get a very good sense of things by watching very closely. Anyway, whatever we might disagree on, my question was whether the f/ms were editable and apparently they are not.