5 minutes ago, eslader said:

The flight dynamics are fine. The sim is acting like much more control deflection than commanded is happening. But it's not a controller setting because if it were, the on-screen controls would deflect appropriately for the rate of change, and they don't.

So basically, you're commanding a small input, the sim recognizes that and commands a small input, and then the control surfaces deflect hugely.

I don't have 2024 myself yet, so all I can go by are various users including actual IRL pilots and experts opinions (who've actually flown in the sim) so far about MSFS 2024 and its default fleet.. and the vast majority seems counter to what you and Robert are saying. In any case at least you seem to have the sim in hand so that's another data point.

 

7 minutes ago, eslader said:

Many of us are getting tired of the "experts don't know any more than the rest of us" crowd, btw.

Well that's unfortunate.. hope you all and/or the experts (self-proclaimed or otherwise) do the needful to get untired, btw.
 

10 minutes ago, robert young said:

As to opinions to be trusted, some reviewers do believe some aircraft are slightly better than before, but for every positive review there are matching views of the opposite opinion. I personally tend to trust certain people I know who are experienced pilots. 

Fair enough, and as do I (in terms of trusting experienced pilots who are also unbiased simmers)... Examples:

320 sim pilot: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/#findComment-5240087
BlackBox711: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/page/2/#findComment-5241299
V1 Simulations: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/page/2/#findComment-5241260
330 Driver: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/page/5/#findComment-5243927
And the various GA pilots' and simmers' feedback on smaller aircraft like the C172, etc in that thread.

And many don't feel that it's just "slightly better" than 2020, but significantly better (at the very least non-trivially better).. both in terms of FMs and ground handling. And no, I just don't see these equal amount of negative reviews to positive ones sorry.
 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

I think at the moment all of the assets, including all the aircraft, are streamed so no access to the config files. However, they are going to open this soon so we can download the assets to our local drive and I am thinking once we can do that hopefully the cfg files come with the download. 

In the September Dev Stream, Jorg was non-committal about allowing config files to be edited for stock aircraft in MSFS 2024. He said that "spiritually" Microsoft would like to allow it, but it's hard to know how to do it when aircraft are streamed rather than stored locally. Here's a YouTube link to the exact question and answer: 

 

28 minutes ago, Marc Collins said:

He said that "spiritually" Microsoft would like to allow it, but it's hard to know how to do it when aircraft are streamed rather than stored locally.

They can now do it.  It's just a matter of encryption.

How can we learn from other airplanes or base content objects now that everything is streamed?

46 minutes ago, Marc Collins said:

In the September Dev Stream, Jorg was non-committal about allowing config files to be edited for stock aircraft in MSFS 2024. He said that "spiritually" Microsoft would like to allow it, but it's hard to know how to do it when aircraft are streamed rather than stored locally. Here's a YouTube link to the exact question and answer: 

 

Well this is a key problem with the whole concept of MSFS2024. A significant part of what made FS2020 so appealing was the enormous opening up of access to both pro and amateur tweakers and improvers. Simulators with any long term life absolutely thrive on user mods. Even the best original software of this type has to be open to addons and mods. FS2020 was a great achievement but was made even better by hundreds of addons and improvements. By storing config files on the cloud instead of user hard drives, access to improvements is going to be extremely limited.

37 minutes ago, irocx said:

They can now do it.  It's just a matter of encryption.

How can we learn from other airplanes or base content objects now that everything is streamed?

Oh, excellent information! Thanks for sharing this. It's great to know there is a way to access the contents of the virtual file system while the sim is running and view any content that is unencrypted. 

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

I don't have 2024 myself yet

I usually am very supportive of your input into this forum, but you literally asked him if he had tried 2024 yet but then admitted you hadn’t either. Rob Young and his RealAir planes were some of the best products ever produced for any flight sim. Hands down. It’s kind of a bummer you’re asking him if he’s using 2024 when you aren’t either. 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by Bdub22

1 hour ago, Bdub22 said:

I usually am very supportive of your input into this forum

Unfortunately, this gentleman, lwt1971, sometimes is very unprofessional. If there is any criticism against ASOBO, they are not at fault; it's just the customer, and he can't accept that something is wrong. And yes, some airplanes show little improvement while others are way off.

Anyhow, having files encrypted isn't the way to go.

As is the A310 in MSFS2020, the airplane is encrypted and also needs additional tweaking. Another example of this problem in this MSFS2024 is the 737 and 747. I fly or have flown these airplanes in real life, and the dynamics are inaccurate.
With this attitude of knowing everything, we have landed on another version of the flight simulator with bugs carried over from the previous version. Yes, there are some improvements, but there are also many disappointments. 

Yes, I have purchased and tested this version, and I am not satisfied at all. It is an early ALPHA. 

 

6 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

I usually am very supportive of your input into this forum, but you literally asked him if he had tried 2024 yet but then admitted you hadn’t either. Rob Young and his RealAir planes were some of the best products ever produced for any flight sim. Hands down. It’s kind of a bummer you’re asking him if he’s using 2024 when you aren’t either. 

Not sure how you're equating my situation and his.. I am not going by just watching others videos of their in-sim flying/usage and then forming my opinions of the flight dynamics... I am just relaying their opinions from their actual in-sim experience, especially the IRL pilots, and those are what I collected in my thread. If he also had tried the sim and given an opinion, then that's an additional and equally valid data point to what I collected in https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/654326-msfs-2024-flight-dynamics-and-groundwater-handling-thread/

I am not questioning Robert's expertise in FM creation/modding, but all I asked was if he had tried the sim himself as that's the best way to assess and give an opinion of his own right? Sure, I guess he can have enough of a trained eye to just watch others' playing of the sim in videos to have initial assessments, but nothing like trying himself. 
 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

4 hours ago, LRBS said:

Unfortunately, this gentleman, lwt1971, sometimes is very unprofessional. If there is any criticism against ASOBO, they are not at fault; it's just the customer, and he can't accept that something is wrong. And yes, some airplanes show little improvement while others are way off.

Anyhow, having files encrypted isn't the way to go.

As is the A310 in MSFS2020, the airplane is encrypted and also needs additional tweaking. Another example of this problem in this MSFS2024 is the 737 and 747. I fly or have flown these airplanes in real life, and the dynamics are inaccurate.
With this attitude of knowing everything, we have landed on another version of the flight simulator with bugs carried over from the previous version. Yes, there are some improvements, but there are also many disappointments. 

Yes, I have purchased and tested this version, and I am not satisfied at all. It is an early ALPHA. 

 

"Very unprofessional" ok sure then lol.. and you and your constant whining about PMDG, Asobo, etc are surely professional then 🙄. Please don't exaggerate re: how I criticize devs or not.. when devs are at fault I do call that out. But what I do however is when it comes to software/aircraft development expertise, project management of their products, laying out of plans or what they intend to do or not do, etc.. for all of these, I will always take the word from the horse's mouth as it were, i.e. the actual dev and expert, rather than random internet forum users pretending to speak for them or assume their role.

I also can easily spot simmers who're fond of legacy sims and products who can't seem to come to grips with (or stand) the fact that MSFS can also do core flight aspects as good or better than previous sims.  You have stated your opinion about the flight dynamics, that's great, and it'll stand amongst the others.. and hey, it just so happens a vast majority currently seem to differ with you on the subject of MSFS 2024 flight dynamics 🤷‍♂️
 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

43 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

 and hey, it just so happens a vast majority currently seem to differ with you on the subject of MSFS 2024 flight dynamics 🤷‍♂️
 

You just demonstrated that you can't accept any criticism.

My statement only addressed the 737 and 747 in MSFS2024. I have not yet expressed my opinion about other airplanes.

Yes, I criticized PMDG (and many others did) for actual facts that can be verified. 

And for the "it just so happens a vast majority currently seem to differ with you on the subject of MSFS 2024 flight dynamics, " I wonder if this "majority" has any real qualifications and hours in real life on these airplanes I mentioned.  Given this attitude, it's no surprise that this simulation/game is in its current state. Good luck defending ASOBO in its current poor state for this release.

3 minutes ago, LRBS said:

You just demonstrated that you can't accept any criticism.

My statement only addressed the 737 and 747 in MSFS2024. I have not yet expressed my opinion about other airplanes.

Yes, I criticized PMDG (and many others did) for actual facts that can be verified. 

And for the "it just so happens a vast majority currently seem to differ with you on the subject of MSFS 2024 flight dynamics, " I wonder if this "majority" has any real qualifications and hours in real life on these airplanes I mentioned.  Given this attitude, it's no surprise that this simulation/game is in its current state. Good luck defending ASOBO in its current poor state for this release.

Sure thing, whatever you say 🙂 

12 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Any twitchiness might be down to improper controller config.

I agree.

so far I have flown these new default aircraft: Cessna 404 Titan, B737 Max, KingAir C90 and found them all very "plausible" and stable (I am not type rated nor have piloted any of these myself).

And as a real GA pilot, I am used to hardly touch the controls during enroute flight, only ever so slightly for minor corrections and re-trimming. after all, an Airbus, C172 or B747 handles somewhat more benign and "boring" than an F16.

gamers, i.e. non pilots might be tempted to over steer and over correct their MSFS airplane, similar to what they are used to from a car racing game. hence the stereo type "it flies on rails", yes indeed it does usually in a general aviation or airliner airplane in smooth air.

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by turbomax

10 hours ago, robert young said:

This review by a respected professional pilot : 

and yet there's a bunch of other reviews from real pilots saying the aircraft are great. Including pilots who fly those specific aircraft.

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by Tuskin38