Well, 

after the good mood, the bad mood ...

It's been almost 1 week since I started, first trying to use, then using, FS 2024.

I have been positively impressed by aspects like "Performance" (less the long times it takes to load...), "Scenery quality", and the "bunch" of default aircraft that come with my Standard Edition.

I have been trying to take the most out of the new Control Settings Logic, and while I'm not 100% sure about how to deal with it, I can't blame it even if at start I felt it was a true mess... It's not a mess, it requires, IMHO, a good tutorial / manual, but I can understand, and I accept as innovative in the positive sense the rationale behind it.

Now, after having finally been able to start testing aircraft like the new default Airbuses, and now also the Fenix, and having given the first steps in a full "Free Flight" including start from the gate, flight planning, default ATC and AI, after having picked the gliders and the new Stemme which I really Love!!!! from RL, and having finally had the chance to test the weather, I would say that my feelings are kind of mixed, unfortunately towards the less enthusiastic side...

.) Flight Dynamics are as poor as they are in FS 2020, although yes they "tamed" the lousy ground physics and somehow added some "inertia" to the "flight mode", but still basic aerodynamic effects such as those that are inherent to prop aircraft, or the effects of asymmetric thrust in multi-engine prop or jet aircraft leave a lot to be desired, and all summed up it's difficult for me to find it better than FS 2020 in that respect.

Yes!!! I know a few RL Professionals say wonders about it, but I simply can't agree with them when they extend their oppinion on specific details that can be found to be acceptably modeled, to the overall behaviour of the flight under this CFD approach being followed by ASOBO.

I know it is still WIP, and I will wait for updates, but so far, I really can't accept gliders that perform like those I tried to be considered as good examples of the flight dynamics of a sailplane / glider, I can't accept an Airbus that reacts as it does to an asymmetric engine failure during a critical phase of flight like during initial climb at full or flex thrust settings, etc...

.) Weather: they said it had been fine tuned and could now get much more realistic effects when flying near the "chaos" of big convective clouds... They also mentioned new developments in soaring and associated activities, which I assume include "soaring weather".

Well, I was able to cross a HUGE Cb, and YES! the weather Radar is now acceptably functional, but sorry, doesn't make any sense to me that I can get through those convective clouds without even caring to touch the controls, surely listening to a lot of noise from the wind, but practically nothing - NADA! - of what should be expected in terms of consequences of IRL traversing or simply getting close to such a cloud !

Or thermalling in a glider with a thermal model that is so detached from reality that makes absolutely no sense !

I would dare saying it's even less realistic than it was in FS 2020...

.) ATC and AI I can't comment that much, but I came across more weird situations than those I found while experimenting with FS 2020, such as AI aircraft maneuvering in the circulation areas and / or taking off and landing opposite what I was directed by ATC to do (???) 

A week after, and even with a good deal of positivness towards FS 2024, I am sorry but I have to say, this is still not to the level that can make me feel happy to use 😕

Since the launch of FS 2020 a very strange feel has populated my simmer days... The feel of a big void in this otherwise great hobby of FLIGHT simulation, which is puzzling given that never like before I got the chance to use simulators that give me astouding scenery and even some aspects of weather depiction ( not the effects... just the looks... ) as well as a whole ecossystem around being able to just pick an aircraft and go flying, all with a level of performance I honestly wouldn't believe could be possible so soon, and yet, leave me with a sensation of a worrying departure from what I would consider to be their main purpose - simulating FLIGHT !

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by jcomm

I must agree with you jcomm, however, there is one question that would justify all the shortcomings: Is it a game or is it a sim?

I believe the answer is quite clear.

Since MS decided to include XBox in the mix,  both 2020 and 2024 have gone from a what could have been the best "simulator" around, to just a game and from that point of view, both games should satisfy anything and everything a gamer would want, except of course, simmers like you and I and everybody else that is looking for the real deal.

Some call it a game, others a sim, to each their own. 

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Well, 

after the good mood, the bad mood ...

.) Flight Dynamics are as poor as they are in FS 2020, although yes they "tamed" the lousy ground physics and somehow added some "inertia" to the "flight mode", but still basic aerodynamic effects such as those that are inherent to prop aircraft, or the effects of asymmetric thrust in multi-engine prop or jet aircraft leave a lot to be desired, and all summed up it's difficult for me to find it better than FS 2020 in that respect.

Yes!!! I know a few RL Professionals say wonders about it, but I simply can't agree with them when they extend their oppinion on specific details that can be found to be acceptably modeled, to the overall behaviour of the flight under this CFD approach being followed by ASOBO.

Hi Jcomm,

I concur on most of the flight models, especially GA aircraft. They are to me still woefully twitchy and especially in pitch. In fact they seem worse as there is also very little harmony between yaw and roll. These things are going all over the place in perfectly still air. Now, without any possibility of tuning cfgs, all you can do is reduce the sensitivity in controls to a ridiculously low value and hope that covers up the twitching. No doubt others might chime in saying it's an improvement but to me not a single GA aircraft has enough inertia or balance.

27 minutes ago, robert young said:

Hi Jcomm,

I concur on most of the flight models, especially GA aircraft. They are to me still woefully twitchy and especially in pitch. In fact they seem worse as there is also very little harmony between yaw and roll. These things are going all over the place in perfectly still air. Now, without any possibility of tuning cfgs, all you can do is reduce the sensitivity in controls to a ridiculously low value and hope that covers up the twitching. No doubt others might chime in saying it's an improvement but to me not a single GA aircraft has enough inertia or balance.

That’s rather discouraging, especially coming from you, Rob - few know FDE better than you 👍! I’ve only flown the Airbuses, incl. Fenix, and those have improved a bit, especially during flare (less floating).

1 hour ago, CarlosF said:

I must agree with you jcomm, however, there is one question that would justify all the shortcomings: Is it a game or is it a sim?

Come now, they're all games, in the genre of simulation.  That doesn't mean one game/sim isn't better at the simulation piece than others.  I'm sure everyone in this thread believes XP12 is the superior simulation game, and P3D as well.  I'll stand by with interest to see how many in this thread and similar ones abandon 2024 because of its flight dynamics or career model elements or what have you aren't up to simulation snuff, and my prediction is clearly: none of you will except for those that don't use MSFS anyway, once 2024 settles out and it most assuredly will largely in the next few weeks to a month or two hopefully not more.  And why might that be that people focused on what they believe matters most in a desktop flight simulation game, yet is missing in 2024, why ever would they continue using MSFS 2024?  Very simple to answer: it's far more compelling and immersive than the competition and that matters hugely to far more people who use desktop flight simulation games.

And furthermore, as a TRAINING platform, 2020/2024 will be as useful as any other game/sim including XP/P3D.  After all you don't REALLY get the FEEL of flight until you're in the air in the RW where your arss is on the line. 98% of the training will be understanding the basics of flight planning and navigation, managing avionics and so forth and all of that is available to everyone using MSFS 2020/2024.   In fact what is being discussed here re 'flight dynamics' will be learned very quickly when up in the RW where you can fully sense and feel what's happening w/ regard to flight dynamics.  After all zillions of pilots learn this never using any desktop flight simulation game right?  Of course.

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by Noel

@Noel, you believe but you're actually wrong, at least reagarding my opinion, when you believe I prefer xp12. 

I feel about xp12 these days just about as I feel about FS 2024, actually worse because I can play FS 2024 and it's been a long time since I last felt pleased playing XP...

Please don't turn this thread into yet another "my sim is better than your sim" thread, because that's not the point.

Other than that I agree with you, and that's why I still use FS2024 and even enjoy it in some ways... more than I can enjoy other general purpose flight simulation platforms (i.e. p3d, XP or AEFS).

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by jcomm

I set controller sensitivity the same as 2020 and can fly both sims with the same input. 

-0.25 sensitivity on the aileron and -0.30 on the elevator.

 

I’ve been a computer pilot for 38 years. I’ve always thought while hand flying that this is nuts, it can’t be this unfriendly to hand-fly a plane. There would be 10,000 times more crashes.

 

FS2024 feels more like I imagine it should feel, but I’ve only been in a small plane a couple times and had the pleasure of being behind the yoke for five minutes back in 1987 so what the hell do I know 🙂

3 minutes ago, laserit said:

I’ve been a computer pilot for 38 years. I’ve always thought while hand flying that this is nuts, it can’t be this unfriendly to hand-fly a plane. There would be 10,000 times more crashes.

 

FS2024 feels more like I imagine it should feel, but I’ve only been in a small plane a couple times and had the pleasure of being behind the yoke for five minutes back in 1987 so what the hell do I know 🙂

Same here 🙂

Simming since the 80s and the only stick time I've had was in a AIA Stampe SV.4C G-AYCK (with a real pilot) for 15 minutes buzzing around north of Shoreham on a company promotion.

30 minutes ago, jcomm said:

@Noel, you believe but you're actually wrong, at least reagarding my opinion, when you believe I prefer xp12. 

I feel about xp12 these days just about as I feel about FS 2024, actually worse because I can play FS 2024 and it's been a long time since I last felt pleased playing XP...

Please don't turn this thread into yet another "my sim is better than your sim" thread, because that's not the point.

Other than that I agree with you, and that's why I still use FS2024 and even enjoy it on some ways... more than I can enjoy other general purpose flight simulation platforms (i.e. p3d, XP or AEFS).

I don't know what you prefer nor really care that's your life.  My main point was that the elements talked about in this thread, flight dynamics in particular, play a tiny role to most users of any desktop flight simulation and in terms of training the differences to be found in XP12/P3D/MSFS w/ regard to flight dynamics will matter little to none.

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

.) Flight Dynamics are as poor as they are in FS 2020, although yes they "tamed" the lousy ground physics and somehow added some "inertia" to the "flight mode", but still basic aerodynamic effects such as those that are inherent to prop aircraft, or the effects of asymmetric thrust in multi-engine prop or jet aircraft leave a lot to be desired, and all summed up it's difficult for me to find it better than FS 2020 in that respect.

Are you a RW pilot, glider or otherwise?  Here's someone who as a few 100 hours as one and had this to say:

You have to love variety of subjective comments about this and everything else to do w/ desktop flight simming.

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by Noel

19 minutes ago, Noel said:

Are you a RW pilot, glider or otherwise?  Here's someone who as a few 100 hours as one and had this to say:

 

Affirm, for more than 44 years and still flying, gliders.

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by jcomm

I also fly gliders but lack the years of experience that @jcomm has. To me, FS2024 is a step backwards wrt FS2020.  I have been unable to do  thermaling, but ridge soaring was worse. Maybe I was unlucky in the few flights I've been able to make so far. XP12 is not much better in gliders either, so no reason to compare. Fortunately there's always Condorsoaring to scratch the itch...

 

When is the 50km radius atmospheric simulation mechanic that they've teased multiple times  coming out. That to me in the biggest disappointment. I remember them saying it'll allow them to do updrafts/downdrafts as well as better thermals by turning the atmosphere around the plane into a fluid essentially.

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by FedDriver

3 minutes ago, FedDriver said:

When is the 50km radius atmospheric simulation mechanic that they've teased multiple times  coming out. That to me in the biggest disappointment. I remember them saying it'll allow them to do updrafts/downdrafts as well as better thermals by turning the atmosphere around the plane into a fluid essentially.

didn't know it was currently disabled, are you sure about that?... if so, that might improve things whenever they enable that. 

In re the flight model, I really can't agree based on my experience so far. Generally speaking, and having limited myself strictly to the NEW Default aircraft, the C172 G1K, the Cabri, and the superlative FSR500 & A2A Comanche, I notice significant improvements in aircraft handling versus v2020.

I will say that the new Defaults do NOT measure up to the FSR500 & Comanche in terms of handling (to clarify, they both work great in v2024). IMHO they are still head and shoulders above in re aircraft handling, and I can see myself continuing on with these as my "mains", just as in v2020.

Now, I just have to find an airliner that handles as well as they do...

I will allow that I haven't tried abnormal flight regimes yet as you've related above, but I'll expedite attempts there and see how my experience compares to yours - because I, too, want to know! 🙂

I can't at all comment on sailplanes, sadly - so I will take you on your word (and IRL experience) there.👍