2 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

You cannot make a comparison because EV's have not been around for decades, or produced in the same numbers.

 

We can compare per capita. Fires for example see hybrids in the thousands, petrol powered just behind and EV just a handful. 

I think most EV's that have issues are due the the electronics, software bugs etc. 

It's down to make and model, really.

"Several electric vehicles consistently rank high in reliability surveys. Among the most reliable, according to multiple sources, are the Nissan Leaf, Consumer Reports, and the Hyundai Ioniq 5. Other models often mentioned include the BMW i3, Kia Niro EV, Kia EV6, Tesla Model 3, and Tesla Model Y. "

The only reason EVs are as popular as they are is in large part due to government subsidies and mandates.  Without these, there would be a lot less EVs on the road.  ICE vehicles still hugely outsell EVs in the USA. 

The only way to make this whole boondoggle work is to 1)subsidize it, and 2)enact policies that force people to buy them.

Answer this: why have the govt. mandates if EVs are so great?  Wouldn't the consumers naturally buy them since they're oh, so awesome?

How about just letting people buy what they want?

Dave 

 

 

12 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Answer this: why have the govt. mandates if EVs are so great?  Wouldn't the consumers naturally buy them since they're oh, so awesome?

 

Yeah, but they are expensive compared to engines that burn fossilised dead stuff. Getting cheaper, but then range is lower, and you guys in the US seem to desire range.

Have you driven one? I've driven 3 now.... when you have the reaction is usually, oh right, I get it now. 

They are great to drive, subsidies or not. Which is why many well off people that don't care about subsidies buy Model S Plaid with over 1000 horse power. 

It is what it is and the performance figures and cost to buy and run are there for all to see.

I would certainly buy one if I had the money. 

The lads who commented here who drive them daily, with first hand experience, are better equipped to comment on cost to run and what they are like to drive, than me and you. So I regard their opinions as worth listening to. 

26 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Answer this: why have the govt. mandates if EVs are so great? 

 

I think that's partly to encourage  those resistant to change, but probably, primarily to encourage manufacturers to re-tool, a big investment.

Back on topic. 🙂

 

EV West in the US does some nice conversions.

 

 

9 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

EV's have not been around for decades,

Odd, I’ve owned them since 2015 with Nissan Leaf, a decade ago.  Their resale value is amazingly good BTW.

So back to my question, neither of you have owned an EV?  Simple question … yes or no?

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

The only way to make this whole boondoggle work is to 1)subsidize it, and 2)enact policies that force people to buy them.

Hahaha … perhaps you should research how much oil production is subsidized via massive tax breaks and drilling grants and foreign interest agreements.  EV subsidies are but a blip compared to oil subsidies.

7 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

Hahaha … perhaps you should research how much oil production is subsidized 

 

In 2022 it was seven trillion dollars, globally. Yikes!

19 minutes ago, martin-w said:

In 2022 it was seven trillion dollars, globally. Yikes!

That is another concocted figure by your greeny friends, just like the "97%" consensus baloney.

They calculate that bogus number by factoring in their estimated cost in terms of adverse environmental and social effects of fossil fuels, in addition to tax breaks and direct subsidies.

In truth, oil subsidies in the USA are quite small, and most of them are in the form of reduced taxes on production, not direct grants and giveaways.  Moreover, greeny groups classify tax reductions and deductions as "direct" subsidies, which they are not.  Taxing less is always a good thing no matter the industry, and is very different than taking taxpayer money and giving it to companies as a handout or loan, which is exactly what is done with so-called "green" industries.

I'm done debating the issue.  Believe what you want to believe and whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

Dave

48 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

That is another concocted figure by your greeny friends

 

Only fair to count environmental impact.

If you ignore the implicit subsidies, damage to environment for example, it's 1.7 trillion dollars globally. Even if you dispute the 1.7 trillion, its still many times more than for renewables. So I think the comment made by "CO2Neutral" was valid. 

Renewables, globally, was 128 billion dollars.

 

Quote

Believe what you want to believe and whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

 

I'm only interested in the published figures. Its not about feeling good.

 

This thread will get locked if we don't switch back to car conversions.  🚗

 

 

Edited May 28, 20251 yr by martin-w

The Delorean was mentioned a while back. A good example of a nice car with a not so nice engine. Much better after the electric conversion. I would absolutely love to have one ! (also, I would love to be rich, which is kind of a prerequisite, here 😕 )

1 hour ago, Daube said:

The Delorean was mentioned a while back. A good example of a nice car with a not so nice engine. Much better after the electric conversion. I would absolutely love to have one ! (also, I would love to be rich, which is kind of a prerequisite, here 😕 )

 

Yeah, I recall it was under powered engines and poor quality control, the issue. Not an easy task to start a new car company. 

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

and you guys in the US seem to desire range.

Anyone in the western US is used to long distance driving.  I one drove from San Francisco to Denver (over 1300 miles) stopping only for gasoline....twice.

Where I live in Roswell I am a bit over 200 miles from Albuquerque if I want to shop in a big city store (Like REI when I was still backpacking).

Range might not be that important in Europe or even in the eastern United States.  But out here in the wide open west it is very important.  If I drive north or east out of Roswell it is 100 miles to the next town with virtually nothing in between except sage brush.

Noel

 

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

I one drove from San Francisco to Denver (over 1300 miles) stopping only for gasoline....twice.

 

Yes, Noel. but you still had to stop for food and to empty your bladder. While that necessary biological task is performed an EV is charging. For the sake of safety and mitigating tiredness, multiple breaks should be taken.

I think in the US, from what I can gather, in certain locations insufficient charging is the issue. 

In Europe new chargers are coming on line every day. 

"Expansion:

Europe is adding EV chargers at a rapid pace, with projections to exceed 1 million chargers by the end of 2025"

53 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Yes, Noel. but you still had to stop for food and to empty your bladder. While that necessary biological task is performed an EV is charging. For the sake of safety and mitigating tiredness, multiple breaks should be taken.

You're right of course Martin.   I emptied the vitals and ate at my refueling stops.  But how many recharging stops would I have to make today for 1300 miles?  Safety and tiredness are not considerations when you're young and full of pee and vinegar and think you're indestructible.  While I still drive I would not even consider a 100 mile drive at my age.  In fact I haven't driven out of town in 4 years.  I have a 2019 Toyota Prius and have just over 5,000 miles on it.  No typo...five thousand miles.  I'll have to stop driving in the not too distant future and will expect a premium price when I have to sell it.

Noel