Don't worry though, we are allowed to talk about cats, and cars, and of course cats driving cars, all good

 

More good news on battery costs:

https://insideevs.com/news/761338/ev-battery-costs-down-2024/

 

3 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

 

Don't worry though, we are allowed to talk about cats, and cars, and of course cats driving cars, all good

 

And about Korla Pandit hypnotizing American housewives over the television in the early 1950s:

 

7 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

So what if people debate endlessly about it?

 

Rather than debating a lot about something, it's more about the arguments that have ensued and resorting to personel insults. The later isn't a good look for the forum.

 

 

On 5/31/2025 at 6:10 PM, LHookins said:

 

One of the best things about an ICE to EV conversion is, they can be converted back when the EV fad is finally over. 

Hook

 

It's far more than a fad Mr. Hook. I know some don't like technological change, and I get that, not everybody is fascinated by the latest technology. Here in Guernsey I get stopped by tourists frequently, asking for directions. I gladly help them, of course... but it does occur to me that Google Maps on their phones  would navigate them to their destinations with ease.

Huge investment has been made by car manufacturers and battery companies to make decent range, economical to run, EV technology a reality. We already have 600 mile range semi-solid state battery cars in China, not to mention 5 minute charging, and with even more advanced battery technology on the way the BEV is here to stay. 

In the relatively near future, with the technology on the way, the choice between a BEV and ICE will be a no brainer.

 

58 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Google Maps on their phones  would navigate them to their destinations with ease.

Google Maps can be very useful, but it can also be wrong.  Have you seen pics of signs people put up saying "Google Maps is wrong. Turn around"?  Every couple of months we have someone stop in front of our house needing directions, including once the sheriff, and these people have electronic maps.  Paper maps would be even more useful for people who can read them.  Do they still make paper maps?

There was a diesel fad some time around 2000.  I would have advised against it.  I loved my diesel, not because it was a diesel but because it was a Mercedes.  (It was cheaper than a gas engine Mercedes and I could afford it.)

This isn't about the EV cars, it's about everything else.

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

In the relatively near future, with the technology on the way, the choice between a BEV and ICE will be a no brainer.

Yes, because sales of new ICE cars will be curtailed by law. 

I'm hoping that when everything shakes out, people who want an EV will still be able to buy one, and that there will always be enough infrastructure to support them.  I'm not really against EVs, I'm just against making them mandatory.

Hook

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

Google Maps can be very useful, but it can also be wrong.

 

Of course it can, nothing is perfect. The context was walking. More reliable than my directions for the tourists, for sure. 😄 

 

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

Yes, because sales of new ICE cars will be curtailed by law. 

 

Then it's not a fad then, that you said would pass. 

You have 1000 new chargers installed each week in the US and chargers by the day in Europe. So look forward 5 years or 10, consider the very significant impact in range (600 miles already here)  charging in minutes, smart grid technology, new capacitor and battery tech..... BEV clearly will be a no brainer in the near future, and that includes regions where it's adoption isn't compulsory.

I would expect provision will be made for classic cars for regions where no choice is given.

I'm no BEV evangelist,  (despite some portraying me that way) I see the negatives (the real ones not the myths) I'm not Greta... but it's quite obvious what the inevitable direction is. Technological change/advancement won't be stopped. 

Edited June 2, 20251 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

I'm not really against EVs, I'm just against making them mandatory.

 

Many are. I guess it depends on a person's perspective when it comes to an issue we can't discuss here. If you believe it's something vital to mitigate as a priority, an existential threat. Govermnts do mandate when such emergencies are manifest. 

But let's avoid expressing our opinions on whether it's an emergency or not, or smoke will billow from Charlie's ears. 😁

I see the mandates as the existential threat.

If the laws enforcing the mandates go away, and people are allowed free choice, then we shall see where EVs go.  There are ways to encourage behavior using various incentives, like during the push for diesel, and if the government wants to promote EVs, that's a better way to do it.

EVs may well be the future, but it should happen naturally, and be what people genuinely want, not required by law.

Hook

7 hours ago, LHookins said:

Paper maps would be even more useful for people who can read them.  Do they still make paper maps?

Glove compartments in cars are a misnomer.  That’s where you stuff your maps in 😉.

When I was in high school one of the teachers was a former Army officer who offered an after school class in map reading.  I took it just for the fun of it.  Learned about grid squares, shooting azimuths, magnetic deviation and orienteering.  It was a blast.  I love learning like that, something that’s not mandatory and everyone is motivated by curiosity.

4 hours ago, LHookins said:

I see the mandates as the existential threat.

If the laws enforcing the mandates go away, and people are allowed free choice, then we shall see where EVs go.  There are ways to encourage behavior using various incentives, like during the push for diesel, and if the government wants to promote EVs, that's a better way to do it.

EVs may well be the future, but it should happen naturally, and be what people genuinely want, not required by law.

Hook

 

I see your point, but those that have the power to mandate such things see the threat as very significant, more so than they did during the diesel fiasco. And that includes particulates in out cities that cause illness. Kids that suck that stuff in have their lung capacity reduced by 20%. Theres a huge list of illnesses caused by car exhaust. 

I'm not sure about the US but the UK have pushed the mandate back and forth like a YoYo.  It's now back to 2030 again. It applies to brand new cars, of course. That means there will still be used ICE cars around for a long time after 2030. Probably used ICE cars around up to 2040 or 2050.  

So in essence, you can still have an ICE car it just wont be brand new.

 

Edited June 2, 20251 yr by martin-w

7 hours ago, LHookins said:

I'm hoping that when everything shakes out, people who want an EV will still be able to buy one, and that there will always be enough infrastructure to support them.  I'm not really against EVs, I'm just against making them mandatory.

I agree that EVs have a place and people should be able to buy them.  I think most people believe that people should be able to buy the type of vehicle they want. 

Unfortunately, there is a small, but loud, minority of very zealous people who believe something so blindly, almost like a religion, that they believe they are in the right to force you and me to buy things that we don't want and to prohibit us from buying or doing things that they deem harmful. 

The policies these folks advocate, which are derived from their beliefs, are the antithesis of liberty and have no place in a free society.

I'm also highly skeptical that our infrastructure can support tens of millions of EVs charging up every day, especially considering all the hungry AI data centers that are coming online as we speak.  

Dave

 

11 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

prohibit us from buying or doing things that they deem harmful. 

 

To be fair, governments have always done that. And in this case we know factually its harmful, It's not blindly believed. And not just harmful to the person doing it but to a multitude of others, including kids in our town and cites that suck in particulates and suffer the consequences. 

 

11 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I'm also highly skeptical that our infrastructure can support tens of millions of EVs charging up every day, especially considering all the hungry AI data centers that are coming online as we speak.  

 

Don't know about the US, but the UK can handle EV's, smart grid, V2G etc. AI data centre's are potentially a big issue though, I would think. 

 

Charlie has requested we don't talk about energy generation or politics, by the way. So best we leave it at that. 

Edited June 2, 20251 yr by martin-w

8 hours ago, LHookins said:

I'm not really against EVs, I'm just against making them mandatory.

It’s almost impossible to respond to your statement without someone waving the “political wand”.  But trying to avoid the rather obvious reason to make EVs mandatory … in the US, driving is NOT a right, it’s very clearly defined as a privilege.  

We live in a society, so by definition we don’t have the freedom to do anything we want … why?  Because what we do has an impact on other’s living in society on this planet.  For example, I can’t deposit nuclear waste next to your residence … some crazy scientists think it’s bad for humans … go figure, those wacky and sometimes wrong scientist types.  

Living isn’t about ME ME ME ME, it’s about US US US (the human race) … every aspect of that … we don’t have some given right to a “way of life” and being selfish certainly isn’t the path to survival.

Anyway, best I can do in this neutered post due to restrictions on freedom of expression called “politics”.

17 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

😁 Please, no!

😜

17 minutes ago, martin-w said:

I wonder how many people who believe they should be free to buy a car that pumps out pollutants and damages health, don't have an issue with  mandates when it stops toxic cigarette smoke being blown on them is restaurants? 

Pumps up polluants while wasting 80% of the energy you fill them with. But.... freedom !

Ok enough with the sarcasm.

ICE engines can be funny (and yet, it depends on which cars they are fit into...), but basically they are just a source of pollution, health issues, and they are a huge waste of energy. Having a classic car converted to electric is like combining the best of both world: good artistic taste (because modern cars are ugly) and good efficiency (and not disturbing the neighbors). Yes, nowadays batteries are not the best, but they keep evolving in the right direction.