Progress is a funny thing...think of (recall) the reaction of all the horse and buggy owners when ICE vehicles first came onto the scene...   🙂

The big downside (at least for an old "shade tree" mechanic like myself) is the degree of computerization of any new vehicle...ICE or EV. It is almost predetermined that only the dealer can maintain them with their specialized tools/equipment. There are countless stories of modern auto techs who appear to only know how to read a scanner and replace the parts the "computer" tells them...obviously NOT a true statement for all auto techs!  🙂

(No, I am not advocating this thread turn into a "right to repair" debate.)

Yes, I fully understand that modern technology has made cars more efficient with the computer controls (you won't find a carburetor or point distributor in any new vehicle). Side note...about 5 years ago I walked into an Autozone and asked where I could find a point file...the dude looked at me like I was from outer space. 

Am I advocating for old point distributors to return? Heck no!!!  Of all the CJ-5's I've owned in the past, everyone of them was converted to a non-contact electronic ignition (for reliability). 

Modern cars are just better (for the most part). I had a 2014 Dodge Challenger with the 5.7 hemi and a six speed manual. About 5 years ago I did a 7000 mile cross country road trip (with the A/C on) and averaged 26 miles/gallon over that trip. What 375 HP car from the 1960's would have achieved that?

Where I live now, I would estimate that EV's account for about 30-40% of the vehicles on the road. The change/transition is inevitable. Old-timers like me are just hanging on.  🙂

My current daily driver is a Gen 2 Mini Cooper (normally aspirated). I just replaced the bearings/rings/oil seals/timing chain, etc due to higher than normal oil consumption...a common problem on these cars after about 60-80.000 miles. That little 1600 cc engine pumps out 120 HP with an 11:1 compression ratio (on mixed pump gas!)...and still gets over 40 miles/gallon! The complexity of the variable valve timing is over the top, IMHO. But I still hate that everything is computer controlled (modules everywhere)...I bought the car used and find myself perpetually chasing/changing sensors to keep it operating as it should...just to keep the computers happy! (My old VW and Ford Fiesta didn't have these issues!)  🙂

ICE, EV, motorcycle, e-bike, scooter, bicycle or foot...just enjoy whatever makes you happy! Life is too short...and change is inevitable!  🙂 

Bolt in kit looks pretty simple for the 911.

 

 

21 minutes ago, rmeier said:

Where I live now, I would estimate that EV's account for about 30-40% of the vehicles on the road. The change/transition is inevitable. Old-timers like me are just hanging on.  🙂

 

Where abouts is that? 40% is pretty high.

17 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Where abouts is that? 40% is pretty high.

I should've been more specific (my apologies)...over 1/3 of new vehicles sold in Greater Vancouver are EV. (The gas guzzlers tend to get parked!)  🙂 It's been reported that new car inventory in the area is in excess of 50%.

Up until 3 years ago, I lived on the Northshore of Lake Pontchartrain, at least 30-40% of the vehicles were pick-up trucks! (Nary an EV to be seen!) When I was living in the UK and France 20 years ago, you wouldn't see a pick-up truck...the vast majority of cars were either gas/diesel sub-compacts.

Like many of the discussions here...so many "issues/observations" are regional.

29 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Bolt in kit looks pretty simple for the 911.

That's what I'm looking at for my restored 914-6 GT clone car...hopefully, in another 10+ years (when I'm ready for the conversion) the battery technology will have evolved even further!  🙂 

4 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

No issues down to 12F here, Mt. Hood drive … winters are mild 19F … range reduction was about 12mi.

That's negligible. When someone talks about a low temperature range reduction, they should give some numbers. 🙂 

Range anxiety has got to be a real thing for people just transitioning from ICE cars. My diesel would do over 400 miles on a full tank, and some of the turbo diesels had a 600 mile tank. No one's gonna sit under a wheel for 600 miles. 😄 Any range anxiety gotta be better after you get used to it.

The nearest charge station to my house is about 30 miles away. The nearest liquid fuel is about 10 (I live out of town).

The 80% number keeps being mentioned for charging. Is it typical to only charge to 80%?

Hook

55 minutes ago, LHookins said:

That's negligible. When someone talks about a low temperature range reduction, they should give some numbers. 🙂 

Experience differs based on what kind of trips you do. In winter the main thing consuming energy is getting the car (and its battery) up to normal temperature after freezing during all night. Passed that phase, the consumption comes back to much more reasonable numbers. Also, on some cars, you can program your departure time so that the car warms itself up while still connected to the plug, to avoid using the battery.

55 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Range anxiety has got to be a real thing for people just transitioning from ICE cars. My diesel would do over 400 miles on a full tank, and some of the turbo diesels had a 600 mile tank. No one's gonna sit under a wheel for 600 miles. 😄 Any range anxiety gotta be better after you get used to it.

Range anxiety is indeed a thing when you start using your first EV car. Then after you built some experience, there is no anxiety anymore. 

55 minutes ago, LHookins said:

The nearest charge station to my house is about 30 miles away. The nearest liquid fuel is about 10 (I live out of town).

The thing is, you can charge at your house. It's slow, but the car is going to sit for several hours all night long anyways, so "slow" doesn't really matter in that case. Tomorrow morning, you'll have enough energy for your daily usage.

55 minutes ago, LHookins said:

The 80% number keeps being mentioned for charging. Is it typical to only charge to 80%?

Hook

Depends on what you intend to do and what kind of batteries your EV car has.

NMC batteries (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) don't like sitting still with more than 80%. It damages them. It's the same reason some smartphones have an option to prevent charging the battery above 80% during the night, to extend the battery life. However, if you are in a road trip, you can charge at more than 80%, you'll get back under that level soon enough.

Also, keep in mind that charging from 80% to 100% takes almost the same amount of time than charging from 0% to 80%. So in a road trip, charging over 80% is basically a huge waste of time.

On the other hand, LIP batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate) actually need to be charged to 100% on a regular basis, to keep in good shape so to say. Of course you don't need to do that during road-trips. It's enough to do it at home, or at the office ("for those who can" in both cases).

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by Daube

6 hours ago, TuFun said:

I drive an '82 Capri RS 5.0 V8, T-5 trans, 8.8 3:55 gears for 43 yrs.  I bought it new.  No one touches my car; I do all the maintenance, and the parts are cheap.  Insurance is cheap, too.  Foxbodies rule!  New engines are still available for this Ford 302 Windsor.

Those cars are little rockets, to be honest I prefered them over the fox body Mustangs from that era. My friend had a Capri in High School we had a lot of fun with it, don't let go of yours that would be the greatest life regret ever

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

Range anxiety has got to be a real thing for people just transitioning from ICE cars.

I actually don't think this is much of an issue any more.  Most EVs have plenty of range and comparable to ICE vehicles.

The problems are 1)charging to 90% takes 30 mins. to over an hour, 2)lack of charging stations, and 3)problems with charging stations(out of service, multiple payment options/requirements for different chargers, and just plain old malfunctions).  

I've seen videos of someone showing up to a charging station and one or more of them not working, and then the other ones have vehicles charging so you have to wait for them to finish, and then another half hour or more to charge yours.  Can you imagine making a long trip in an EV?  What a pain in the a**.

They're fine for zipping around town and short range trips with overnight charging at home.

Dave

What kind of range did the Model T Ford have and how many gas stations were around in those days?  I'll never own an electric car.  I have a hybrid that should last me until I lose my license due to eyesight.  I need a vision report from an eye doctor to bring to DMV when I go in for my annual driver's license renewal.

But back to the Model T and the range improvement and gas station growth.   Range comparable with ICEs and competing charging stations across the street from each other every few blocks in the city and a couple in every small town in the country isn't far off.  Especially when big name manufacturers begin building more and more electrics and phasing out ICEs.

Noel

 

8 hours ago, LHookins said:

The 80% number keeps being mentioned for charging. Is it typical to only charge to 80%?

 

6 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I've seen videos of someone showing up to a charging station and one or more of them not working

Oh boy, not this misinformation campaign again … “I’ve seen” … so how much experience do either of you have with EVs … including ownership and length of duration?

Over the decades, I’ve seen 10,000+ ICE vehicles on the side of the road unable to move due to the number of maintenance requirements and failure points.  More moving parts = more points of failure.

Weren’t both of you calling out users complaining about a flight sim but not actually owning it?  Hmmm … 

39 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

Over the decades, I’ve seen 10,000+ ICE vehicles on the side of the road unable to move due to the number of maintenance requirements and failure points.  More moving parts = more points of failure.

You cannot make a comparison because EV's have not been around for decades, or produced in the same numbers. If so we would have seen a lot of these broken down on the side of the road as well 

44 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

Weren’t both of you calling out users complaining about a flight sim but not actually owning it?

Feel free to tag posts where this was done. We'll need a link to the actual posts so we can check them.

@Daube  already addressed the 80% issue quite well. Thank you, Sir.

8 hours ago, Daube said:

NMC batteries (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) don't like sitting still with more than 80%.

8 hours ago, Daube said:

Also, keep in mind that charging from 80% to 100% takes almost the same amount of time than charging from 0% to 80%. So in a road trip, charging over 80% is basically a huge waste of time.

Hook

The problem of the charging stations lacking plugs or not working was indeed a major issue... I mean, like 5 years ago.

Here in Europe the amount of charging stations has grown a lot in the past 5 years, with some new operators appearing too. Before that, we had basically just Tesla, Ionity and a few other minor things... but nowadays, there are additional one like Electra, Fastned, Total Energy etc.. all providing fast chargers.

I have now made several road trips over the past 5 years (basically after the COVID confinements). Nothing comparable to crossing the USA from one ocean to the other of course, but long enough (around 2.000 kms everytime, to go to the other side of the country, or go across Switzerland and its beautiful mountain passes, etc... and the range has never been an issue. The network of chargers has become much more dense than before, and even 5 years ago, if you had a Tesla, then you didn't need to worry at all. Today this has become true for other brands of EV cars as well.

But don't get me wrong, the situation is not "100% perfect" at all yet. Go travel on a major axis on the first Saturday of the schools summer holiday period, and you'll definitely get some long waiting times, still today I think.

9 hours ago, dave2013 said:

The problems are 1)charging to 90% takes 30 mins. to over an hour,

 

That's when you take a rest for a big pee pee and poo. And when done with that stretch your legs and consume some tasty comestibles. 😄

 

I've never driven for more than a couple of hundred miles in one go. Not safe and a bit pointless.

The have a solid state car in China now that has super long range and charges nearly as fast as filling up with fuel.